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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

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Air Niugini's subsidiary - LINK PNG

Old 27th Apr 2019, 06:50
  #1381 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2003
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em tasol !

"A completely predictable future is already the past"
Allan Watts.

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Old 27th Apr 2019, 12:38
  #1382 (permalink)  
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Bit of an ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM moment that needs to be addresed I'd say....

So, (for what ever reason?????)....Air Niugini won the Appeal against both Pilot Unions...NAPU and PNG APA and even the pilot Piokole...
THEN NAPU & PNGAPA & Pilot PIOKOLE are judged to have to pay ALL THE LEGAL COSTS OF ANG, AND ALL THE COURT COSTS....not only the cost of the Appeal, but also the cost of the previous court cases that the unions actually won!!!

Someone mentioned that ANG has probably spend one or two Mil on it lawyers, QC's etc etc, so what if NAPU, THE PNG APA AND PIOKLE don't have that sort of money?.

So if the Unions dont have enough money, does that mean ANG goes the pilots that were members of the Unions that took ANG to Court. What about those that left after it started, but before the Court was finished?

And if ANG does go individual pilots , how focused will those pilots be wondering how much they will be hit up for, will any expat Union member even stay in country, and how many National Pilots will give it up and go home.

Freaking can of worms....and when it comes to flying is such an environment such as PNG. Pretty sure I wouldnt want to be a passenger going to the highlands in crap weather with the pilots wondering if the company was going to sue them for outstanding legal costs!!!

Yep, the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM, needs to be addressed pretty quickly I say.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 15:05
  #1383 (permalink)  
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I don't think it's that complicated. The costs are awarded only against those Respondents mentioned in the Judgement. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. What follows, they get declared bankrupt, the creditors including ANG share the spoils of what's left. Any shortfall, bad luck.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 20:07
  #1384 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by gulliBell View Post
I don't think it's that complicated. The costs are awarded only against those Respondents mentioned in the Judgement. If they don't have the money, they don't have the money. What follows, they get declared bankrupt, the creditors including ANG share the spoils of what's left. Any shortfall, bad luck.
Hopefully whatever funds the union has left will be spent on a massive piss up for the boys...they deserve it.
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Old 27th Apr 2019, 20:28
  #1385 (permalink)  
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
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The AFAP had a $6.5 million damages decision hanging over their head for several years post the 1989 Dispute.
It was ultimately never demanded.

Last edited by ad-astra; 27th Apr 2019 at 20:38.
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Old 28th Apr 2019, 04:28
  #1386 (permalink)  
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APA could make ANG profitable again if forced to pay.
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Old 30th Apr 2019, 00:03
  #1387 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by geeup View Post
There must be close to 240 pilots at ANG. Broad spectrum of age & experience.

Currently there are 94 Captains and 83 F/O's - total of 177

From the seniority list published 31 Dec 2017 they had 164. Since then they have employed and kept 20 Captains and 25 F/O's but 33 others have either left or got the sack. Of the 45 employed, 8 were reemployed pilots.

Given the increase in their fleet they are still in trouble finding and retaining crew.

And they "won", maybe not.

Last edited by olderairhead; 30th Apr 2019 at 21:54. Reason: numbers updated
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Old 3rd May 2019, 07:32
  #1388 (permalink)  
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*************THE END************
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Old 4th May 2019, 07:13
  #1389 (permalink)  
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The end?

More like business as usual. Resignation havenít flooded in however applications keep coming in.
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Old 4th May 2019, 10:07
  #1390 (permalink)  
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The oldest game in town, join and get the rating log a few hundred hours on type then leave for something better. I doubt any of those applying are planning on a long term career at ANG.
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Old 4th May 2019, 11:39
  #1391 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
Posts: 952
There is a lot more to ANGís long term survivability than Pilots being hired, leaving and all the rest of the propaganda flirted on this website.

Just remember that pilots are consumables globally - FACT! Hate to state this fact, however itís reality at the moment, regardless of some kind of alleged global shortage.

Experience and quality is totally another issue........

Last edited by Duck Pilot; 4th May 2019 at 12:16.
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Old 4th May 2019, 13:25
  #1392 (permalink)  
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Duck Pilot speak tru. I look at the number of pilots being churned out here in Fiji and those who go abroad to train and come back and I wonder where they all end up.
There was an unfortunate death of a trainee Fiji pilot in NZ last week who had a start date with FJ Link in about a month.
A lot of Fiji Nationals are ending up in PNG with what were previously unheard of mins. Like he said experience and quality are different...
There is a regional market for cheap, low houred, inexperienced pilots to fill seats....
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Old 4th May 2019, 22:47
  #1393 (permalink)  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
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Note that I wasnít specifically referring to pilots from a certain region or background in my last post.

Sadly inexperienced and not well trained pilots may be getting into airlines such as ANG, these pilots could come from anywhere. Shutting down the pilot cadet scheme in which ANG had total control of the standard of pilots they where getting, when the pilots come back to the airline, provided an excellent foundation for ANG to get long term deducted pilots into their cockpits.

I just hope the safety and flight standards can be maintained in these challenging times.
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Old 5th May 2019, 00:05
  #1394 (permalink)  
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Every airline in the world, even the “two bit ones” receive heaps of applications from aspiring jet pilots… ANG wouldn't be any different. But it’s about QUALITY not quantity.

You may be getting a lot of applications from expats current on twin otters and Y12’s, Islanders, singles, instructing etc for FO slots (so tell me, what did happen to the drive to only have 5% expat pilots by 2020?), I wonder what your application rate and take up rate is for Quality Direct Entry Captains.

Presently ANG offers a direct entry Captains PGK 450, 308 pa on Level A (never to progress to a higher level), and when you churn the numbers with the higher PNG Tax, .40 c exchange rate, no superannuation paid, that is equivalent to an Aussie salary of about $137, 000.

And combing that salary with just 4 weeks leave a year, 10 days off a month (minimum of 4 needed to be used for travel to and from Domicile for any time at home), working in a third world country, overtime that doesn’t kick in until 70 hours (and by then you will have probably done 80 jet sectors and so fatigued you don’t really care about O/T), continual disrupted and absolute crap rosters plus plus.

Easy to see that salary is not commensurate with what is expected, especially when you look around and see that you need to do a lot less for $137,000 than a narrow body ANG captain earns who is away from home for most of the year. (Yes, Tours does sweeten the pot a little, but you have to be given Tours, (Tours are not a given, it is not even in the Contract, just given at the managers discretion ) and if certain elements of management have their way it wont remain on 100% of the narrow body salary - just need to look at Link PNG for that as the ANG Subsidiary pay around 80% full salary for those on Tour.

But if ANG Management is serious about rebuilding the Airline, making it competitive and reliable airline, an important part of the process will be treating pilots with respect and also realizing the value of experience, a bit like what ANG did prior to 2015 did.

So, Chop ‘ol mate, again I say it is about the quality, not the quantity of applications, and not only in the pilot ranks, but middle and upper management as well. The PX73 B 737 crash at CHUUK goes a long way to give support for that proposition.

Last edited by NCD; 5th May 2019 at 11:50.
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Old 15th May 2019, 12:59
  #1395 (permalink)  
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Anyone hear anything about the Air Niugini 737 that nearly ran out of fuel returning from Singapore last week. I heard it continued to POM despite being told the airport was closed due fog - 6 attempted landings followed by a final illegal auto land. Other aircraft diverted to cairns. Anyone care to verify this.
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Old 15th May 2019, 21:25
  #1396 (permalink)  
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Ouch! Was a (fuel) Mayday declared? What was NZB wx like?
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Old 15th May 2019, 22:00
  #1397 (permalink)  
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Nadzab no lights, no tower (on duty) and only has 1 APR atm.

Probably impossible to make CNS after more than 1 APR in PY with full fuel X Sing, especially if there is INTER or TEMPO fuel required in CNS....
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Old 15th May 2019, 22:09
  #1398 (permalink)  
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PX393 on morning of 5th May looks to have done a bit of base training on arrival in POM.


PX55 same morning diverted to CNS


Last edited by Kiwiconehead; 15th May 2019 at 22:27.
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Old 16th May 2019, 00:06
  #1399 (permalink)  
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Heard it got to the gate with around 1.1 tonne fuel in tanks.

"Probably impossible to make CNS after more than 1 APR in PY with full fuel X Sing, especially if there is INTER or TEMPO fuel required in CNS...."

Should have diverted after the first approach then....and this mob passes IOSA audits. Makes a mockery of such things.
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Old 16th May 2019, 00:36
  #1400 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2001
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If all the B737 Singapore - POM stuff is true; has the flight crew been stood down? The Fleet manager/Chief Pilot I would assume has checked the FMS for the flight, downloaded the historical data.
Is there any QAS staff taking an interest?

Troppo in the 4th May post mentioned pilots from Fiji coming to PNG, OK if qualified but lack of experience is an issue. I thought that at least two senior CASA PNG FOI's/Examiners were both ex Fiji aviation, and if 83 year old dude is still there then he is Fiji orientated. I'm not picking on Fiji, but you get what you pay for and although B737 pay in Kina may not be up to desirable western standard, in some countries when you take the money 'home' it is a kings fortune. There is no level paying field in ANG, or CASA PNG. No apparent updates on the Chuuk accident as yet.
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