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Qantas Short Haul EBA 2014

Old 15th Oct 2014, 02:32
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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And there is the model of the future of Qantas flying. Jetstar aircraft wet-leased to do Qantas flying. Better vote NO before it is too late!
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 02:40
  #42 (permalink)  
Keg

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Lightbulb

Sure. That may happen. I'm not sure the travelling public will be thrilled to have bought a Qantas ticket to turn up and see a wet leased JQ A320 waiting for them.

The problem is that as soon as you call it Qantas and fly it around domestically and it's painted as a Qantas aeroplane, the SH EA applies. That doesn't stop them from calling it Link or Lite or whatever. I just don't subscribe to the 'it will all be wet leased JQ aeroplanes' scare mongering.
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 07:13
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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how are the board pissed off with Jetstar & how are things swinging back towards Qantas??
No-one said JQ was disappearing altogether.....the conversation was in relation to main domestic ports and some 2nd tier ports.

watch this space i guess
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Old 15th Oct 2014, 08:04
  #44 (permalink)  
bdcer
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Sorry Cloud, I misunderstood your previous post. Just trying to see which way the pendulum will swing next
 
Old 15th Oct 2014, 08:26
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Well Keg if it is not a problem get the company to include it in the contract. Currently Jetconnect and Qantas link are excluded. Look at the history of EBA 7 rollover. RTFC! Remember you can't rely on trust, not with this crowd!
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 10:22
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Keg my old mate. If only that were true. Sadly the shorthaul EA only applies to the 737. That's it.
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 14:52
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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The best thing is the majority of pilot EBA'S in the QF group will be in negotiation soon, that's a combined force. QF Shorthaul, Jetstar, Longhaul, Sunstate, Network. Join together and show the force! The fact of the matter is if we actually combined we could cripple them good. Divide and Conquer is their mantra, now I say join and demolish!
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Old 16th Oct 2014, 22:23
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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FMG contract is a a QF Group contract. Therefore allowing QF to hand which ever part of the contract to entity that "they" feel will work best. Hence why we have been seeing NAA, NJS, QF SH and now JQ. Again its internal competition that they want and it becomes more apparent with mining as at times mining is very very cost driven.

NAA has just lost another separate contract which they had in their own right prior to QF purchasing them. Im led to believe even though the client was very happy with NAA. VA under cut and their decision was purely price based.

QF sydney really don't seem to think that a Green tail or Orange star won't impact the punters perception of the QF brand. They just continue to trash the brand, all cost driven and it will continue because the likes of Joyce and the his mates just care about $$$$ and think that they can get away with it in WA.

As previous post said everyone needs to band together cos they are gonna play each entity off one another.
Rumour is rife with A320s being added to the NAA AOC… time will tell
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 13:22
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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A CONTENTIOUS proposal to pay Alan Joyce an extra $2.5 million in three-years time will be voted on at today’s Qantas Annual General Meeting in Melbourne.

The long term incentive — expected to be vigorously debated — is designed to reward the CEO for achieving priorities of Qantas’ transformation agenda, including $2 billion in cost reductions by 2017.
me!

What a greedy prick! Asking us to show wage restraint and then taking a bonus because we do Unfarkenbelievable!!!

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce could get $2.5m ?incentive? bonus when AGM votes | News.com.au
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 14:16
  #50 (permalink)  
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No..no..no...that can't be possible. How does this guy pull this stuff off. 2.5 million incentive for (maybe) fixing something he broke in the first place. Words fail me.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 19:36
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Anybody undecided will be swayed to vote NO after this revelation. The most morally bankrupt unethical process I have ever witnessed is being played out at Qantas. They delayed, obfuscated, never negotiating in "Good Faith" from the beginning. Talk about leading by example? Anything but a NO will be a surprise. Rumours abound that either Joyce or the new COO will become involved if the deal is knocked back. Looks like the consultants at Oldmeadow will be bypassed. What a pity for the leeches.
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Old 23rd Oct 2014, 23:06
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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That means he is planning on staying until 2017.
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 11:50
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by angryrat View Post
A CONTENTIOUS proposal to pay Alan Joyce an extra $2.5 million in three-years time will be voted on at today’s Qantas Annual General Meeting in Melbourne.

The long term incentive — expected to be vigorously debated — is designed to reward the CEO for achieving priorities of Qantas’ transformation agenda, including $2 billion in cost reductions by 2017.
me!

What a greedy prick! Asking us to show wage restraint and then taking a bonus because we do Unfarkenbelievable!!!

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce could get $2.5m ?incentive? bonus when AGM votes | News.com.au
He hasn't been given anything. It's based on performance for 2015-17. It's part of the Long Term Incentive Plan for senior execs. As I understand it he'll have to achieve all the targets in that 2 years to get it
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Old 28th Oct 2014, 12:27
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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He hasn't been given anything. It's based on performance for 2015-17. It's part of the Long Term Incentive Plan for senior execs. As I understand it he'll have to achieve all the targets in that 2 years to get it
It is based on Total Shareholder Returns as compared to ASX100 (up to 50%) and a selection of Global Airlines (up to 50%) from 1/7/14 to 30/6/17.

So he led and talked the company into the ground and now suddenly it is all turning around coincidental with his share rights issue and a rising share price? Wow what a legend!

Also note the rights issue price is about half the current share price, so he's already in the money. Wow, what a legend!
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Old 31st Oct 2014, 06:21
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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79% voted against.
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 12:03
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not intending to be rude, nor provocative.

Could I please ask, for what reasons was the no vote so strong?

Pay? Working conditions?

That's all. Not stirring.
Cheers
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 14:11
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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I'd say this post from Qrewroom pretty much sums things up...

I would say that with the QF share price up 22% since last weeks AGM, to $1.68 today, that the market believes we are on track to return to profitability. Apparently the sky didn't fall in after all.
We had an agreed in principal agreement with full back pay and no 18 month pay freeze 10 December last year.
The share price was $1.23. The main thing that has changed is that the stupid excess capacity war has finished.
I believe QF was greedy to not offer full back pay when asking for the 18 month pay freeze and that is why this crap deal was voted down.

At the AGM I also noticed that senior management managed to move their bonuses to 2017 so they are not seen taking it in the short term. These long term bonuses are weighted at 150% of previous Long Term Incentive Schemes.

It's interesting that when AIPA asked for back pay and the pay freeze to be repaid to SH pilots in the future the answer was a flat out NO.

In an article that was published in the Sydney Morning Herald within an hour of the vote closing a QF spokesman said "The company was disappointed in the result, which followed two years of good faith bargaining".

This leaked reporting of QF bargaining in good faith is an insult AIPA and the pilot group, as is the bonus system agreed to for senior management, at the AGM.

If QF turned around tomorrow and offered full back pay, with an 18 month pay freeze, I will once again vote NO.
The company continues to tell me I'm more expensive than my Virgin counterpart, yet conveniently neglects the CAO 48 exemption, their 71 hour MG, extra days off and of course, their almighty scope clause.

All the while they have returned to profitability and will look after themselves, as Dixon did, in the years ahead.
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 21:26
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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What's the scope clause..?
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:23
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
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This post by AIPA President Safe on Qrewroom answers your question...

AIPA is all for a discussion about the differences between the SHEA and the Virgin Agreement. However management generally only want to discuss the areas in which we are better off, such as the stick rate. A genuine discussion around the differences must look at all parts of the agreements, not just the more 'convenient' ones.

AIPA is all for unbiased comparisons that are free of 'spin'. As such, reproduced here is part of the Virgin Agreement and is posted without further comment (with apologies for formatting):

JOB SECURITY AND OPPORTUNITIES

51.
JOB SECURITY
51.1
Virgin Australia will maximise job security for Pilots.
51.2
In doing so, Virgin Australia will not outsource its Pilot labour and/or Australian based
flying to any other company or entity within Australia or overseas and will maximise the
29.

circumstances in which Australian based flying is performed by Australian based Pilots
covered by this Agreement.

51.3
In making these commitments, the parties recognise that they are not intended to interfere
with the operation of the Virgin Australia Long Haul International Pilots’ Agreement 2011
or the employment arrangements applicable to the New Zealand based pilot workforce. Nor
do they prevent Virgin Australia from entering into alliance or partnership style
arrangements with other airlines (on an ongoing basis) or engaging other airlines (inside or
outside the Group) to supplement capacity for a finite period.
51.4
For the purposes of this clause, the phrase “Australian based flying” means all flying
covered by this Agreement within Australia and to/from Australia other than Trans-Tasman
flying.
52.
PILOTS’ LIST
52.1
Virgin Australia will publish a Pilots’ List consistent with the rules set out in Appendix 4.
52.2
The Pilots’ List will detail the following information:
(a)
A Pilots’ position on the List;
(b)
Name;
(c)
Staff number;
(d)
Base;
(e)
Fleet;
(f)
Rank; and
(g)
End date for any type freeze.
52.3
The Pilots’ List will be available on the intranet and updated by Virgin Australia at least
every quarter.
52.4
Any concerns or disputes about the Pilots’ List are to be dealt with in accordance with the
Disputes Settlement Process.
53.
CAREER PROGRESSION AND TRANSFER OPPORTUNITIES
53.1
Virgin Australia recognises that Pilots who join the Virgin Australia Group do so with an
expectation of enjoying a career path within the Group, and in most cases, based on a
commitment for the duration of their career.
53.2
Further, Virgin Australia recognises that Pilots’ desired career path will generally involve
aspirations including, but not limited to, advancement through the Pilot ranks, experience
and advancement on one or more aircraft types and opportunity to work from one or more
geographic locations.
53.3
Virgin Australia supports career growth for Pilots and is committed to providing the above
opportunities to all Pilots as closely aligned with individual preference as practicable.
30.

53.4
Virgin Australia will consult with Pilots and their representatives about the above
opportunities available to the Pilot group, to maximise such opportunities and address any
related issues (including any issues associated with a Group career progression system).
Virgin Australia will consult with Pilots and their representatives about these matters via
the AIC.
53.5
Consistent with the above, Virgin Australia seeks to encourage long term careers across the
Virgin Australia Group. To this end, Virgin Australia will:
(a)
Encourage Pilots to participate in their own career progression process by making
applications for vacancies they are suited for (this does not preclude a Pilot who is
not endorsed on a type from applying for a position on such type);
(b)
Advertise all Pilot vacancies internally;
(c)
Not engage Pilots from outside the Virgin Australia Group until the pool of suitable
internal applicants has been exhausted;
(d)
Communicate up front the selection criteria to be used;
(e)
Ensure that the selection process is transparent;
(f)
Communicate the names of Pilots who have been successful in bids for transfers,
command upgrades and base changes; and
(g)
Provide feedback to candidates when requested and provide mechanisms for review
of decisions via the Disputes Settlement Process in this Agreement (or the “A Fair
Go” policy).
53.6
In return, there is an expectation that Pilots will:
(a)
Take steps to ensure their own readiness for opportunities including where
appropriate to seek out or participate in remedial or developmental training;
(b)
Apply appropriately and participate in the selection process;
(c)
Meet any freeze requirements related to career moves (see clause 62);
(d)
Seek feedback on the outcome of recruitment or promotion decisions; and
(e)
Utilise the Disputes Settlement Process in this Agreement (or the “A Fair Go”
policy) to request review of a recruitment or promotion decision.
53.7
To avoid doubt, Virgin Australia will not engage/employ any direct entry Captains unless
there is a need for specific expertise and none of the Group candidates have that.
54.
CAREER PROGRESSION PROCESS
54.1
The Parties recognise that once candidates have gone through the career progression
process set out below and been assessed as suitable, relative position on the Pilots’
List is the final and deciding factor.
31.

54.2
The process that Virgin Australia will follow in order to offer career progression
opportunities to Pilots is set out below:
(a)
Step 1 – advertise the vacancy
The vacancy will be advertised internally. Selection criteria for the vacancy will be set out
in the advertisement and/or in other written material referred to in the advertisement (e.g.
the A1 Manual). Selection criteria will be reasonable, relevant and quantifiable.

For the purposes of this clause, the term “vacancy” relates to all promotion opportunities
and allocation to aircraft types, other than Training and Check appointments which are at
the sole discretion of Virgin Australia.

(b)
Step 2– conduct an initial assessment
Candidates who apply for the vacancy will then be assessed against the selection criteria.
Only those candidates who apply for a vacancy will be considered. Any candidate who is
subject to a type or position freeze will be considered eligible for the vacancy if the freeze
period will be completed before the candidate commences the training course for the new
position.

(c)
Step 3 – determine short list
Virgin Australia will then create a short list of candidates who meet the selection criteria.
This short list will be those candidates who meet the criteria and who have the highest
position on the Pilots’ List.

(d)
Step 4 – conduct further assessment
Virgin Australia will then conduct a further assessment of those candidates on the short
list. This assessment will include an evaluation of each candidate’s performance in the
areas of line operations and flight standards. This may require input from relevant line
operations and flight standards management in other areas of the Group. Virgin Australia
may also conduct interviews of those on the short list as part of the assessment process.
Pilots will be assessed as either suitable or not suitable. This assessment will be
documented. Pilots will not be ranked in order of suitability.

(e)
Step 5 – decision and written notification
The candidate/s on the short list who is/are assessed as suitable will be offered the vacancy
in order of position on the Pilots’ List.

Candidates deemed unsuitable for command/promotion opportunities will, on request, be
advised in writing why they were assessed as unsuitable for the position. In this context,
unsuccessful candidates are entitled to be provided with reasons why they were
unsuccessful in the recruitment process and information about what they need to address to
improve their prospects of being successful in the future. Unsuccessful candidates are also
entitled to be provided with reasonable support and training to assist them address any
deficiencies identified during the recruitment process.

If all candidates on the short list are assessed as not suitable, Virgin Australia will begin
the process again in a manner consistent with this clause.

32.

54.3
Any candidate aggrieved by the above process (or decision) can request a meeting with
relevant management to discuss their concerns. If the meeting fails to resolve the Pilot’s
concerns, they can progress that matter via the Disputes Settlement Process in this
Agreement and/or the process set out in the “A Fair Go” policy. Any election to progress
those concerns must be made within 14 days of the meeting.
54.4
To avoid doubt, Pilots covered by this Agreement cannot be displaced by other pilots in the
Group because of relative position on the Pilots’ List (e.g. a Pilot covered by this
Agreement cannot be required to give up their position or base in the Australian short and
medium haul operations for a pilot in the long haul operations because of relative position
on the Pilots’ List).
54.5
While Check and Training appointments are not covered by the above process, all new
Check and Training appointments will be advertised internally. Selection criteria for these
appointments will be set out in the advertisement and/or in other written material referred
to in the advertisement. Any candidate aggrieved by this process (or decision) can progress
that in a manner consistent with clauses 54.2(e) and 54.3.
54.6
Where a Pilot is unsuccessful in completing their training and being checked to line in a
new position within the Virgin Australia Group, they will revert to their previous rank,
fleet and base unless otherwise agreed with the Pilot. The Pilot is also entitled to be
provided with reasonable support and training to assist them address any deficiencies
identified during the training process.
55.
BASE TRANSFER PROCESS
55.1
Virgin Australia will administer a process to deal with base transfers (within type). This
process will ensure that vacancies are allocated on the basis of position on the Pilots’
List only.
55.2
Where Virgin Australia has a requirement to change the allocation of aircraft types to a
base or to introduce an aircraft type (currently operated by Virgin Australia) to an
established Virgin Australia Pilot base, and such changes do not generate additional
positions on the applicable fleet (as determined by the resource plan), Virgin Australia will
offer base transfers to Pilots currently operating that type on the basis of position on the
Pilots’ List. These base transfers will be considered to be voluntary base transfers. No
additional positions on the applicable fleet will be created nor filled as a result of such a redistribution
of aircraft.
55.3
Where Virgin Australia has a requirement to change the allocation of aircraft types to a
base or to introduce an aircraft type (currently operated by Virgin Australia) to an
established Virgin Australia Pilot base, and such changes generate additional positions on
the applicable fleet (as determined by the resource plan), Virgin Australia will advertise
such additional positions and fill those positions on the basis of position on the Pilots’
List.
56.
SECONDMENTS
56.1
Pilots may be seconded to an approved airline outside the Group to advance their careers.
Any such secondment requires agreement from the affected Pilot/s, Virgin Australia and
the approved airline. Virgin Australia will determine the airlines that are approved for the
purposes of this clause.
33.

56.2
The period of secondment will be determined by the needs of Virgin Australia and the
approved airline and such period may be extended if all parties agree. Pilots on secondment
must serve out the minimum period specified in their secondment agreement before
returning to their prior position at Virgin Australia (or another position, as agreed).
56.3
Unless otherwise agreed by the parties, Pilots must take and/or be paid any outstanding
annual leave prior to commencing the secondment. Any personal/carer’s or long service
leave accrued at the time will be recognised upon return to the Pilot’s prior position (or
another position, as agreed).
56.4
Approved secondments will not break continuity of service and upon return, original
Date of Joining will be recognised.
56.5
Pilots may also apply for leave of absence to further their careers.
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Old 1st Nov 2014, 23:28
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 243
Beat me to it CaptCloudbuster!

From the document that Qantas management hopes no Qantas Short haul pilot will ever see: Virgin Australia Short Haul Pilots' Agreement 2013. This document should be reviewed by short haul pilots to compare the T&C of the external competitor. The scope clause is on page 33.


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