Qantas Sacking Tarmac Engineers

[arcs'n'sparcs]

I'm not that intelligent but 1.5% over 6 months is the same as 1.5% over 12 months. Twice the period but the same increase.

[Nassensteins Monster]

3% to cover the period 1 July 2016 to 30 June 2017.
3% to cover the period 1 July 2017 to 30 June 2018 and
1.5% to cover 1 July 2018 to 31 Dec 2018. (it is just half a year therefore half the rise)

Fedsec, I am annualising the pay rises. The first 18 months is a big fat zero.

Year 1: 0%
Year 2: 0% for the first 6 months + 3% for the last 6 months = 1.5% p.a. for Year 2.
Year 3: 3% for the first 6 months = 1.5% p.a. Another 3% for the last 6 months of Year 3 = 1.5% p.a. Total for Year 3 = 3% p.a.
Year 4: 3% for the first 6 months = 1.5% p.a. Another 1.5% for 6 months = 0.75% p.a. Total for Year 4 = 2.25% p.a. for Year 4.
Why is the second half of Year 4 treated differently to the second half of Year 2?

I make the assumption that we get nothing post 1 Jan 2019 because the EA doesn't stretch that far. Call me stoopid but I don't count the cash from the harvest till it's at market. 1 Jan 2019 is a long way away. Dice it another way: my calculator says annualised, 1.5% for the first 6 months of FY2019 and then 0% for the second 6 months of FY2019 is 0.75% per annum for FY2019.

But then who cares? I'm just being pedantic. It won't change my vote: I want peace and stability for 4 years, not give up a whole lot, and the boyz back from the CTC.

I'm not that intelligent but 1.5% over 6 months is the same as 1.5% over 12 months. Twice the period but the same increase.

WTF? Your logic being? Two sentences expressing diametrically opposed views? Look, you can't count what you don't have. 1.5% in the first 6 months of FY2019 + 0% in the second 6 months of FY2019 = 0.75% over 12 months. Would you trade me a whole orange now if I gave you half an orange now, plus the promise of another half an orange in 6 months? Seriously, what is so hard to understand about that? With customers with logic like that, why am I not in banking?

For the other pedants out there, I am not counting compounding. That would clearly blow some peoples minds.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

I don't know what you are doing with your calculations monster however you appear to have mixed calendar years with financial years. The wage rises that had generally occurred on 1 Jan will move to 1 July so the "year" rises are measured in is now the financial one.


As for the difference between the back half of years 2 and 4, it is as follows. Year 2 in your calculations ends 31 Dec but you know already that there is no rise on 1 Jan (because they have shifted to mid year). It is a known 0. Year 4 however concludes and we do not know what the outcome from 1 Jan would be because you will be ready for a new EA.


Sure don't count your chickens but consider the possibilities. If the airline are still in the poo I would assume the company would want to freeze wages again. If they are making a motza, we will be pointing our finger at the wage freeze and demanding it be returned with interest (maybe a 7.5% claim). A fairer guess would be that another 3% rise would be offered then. If that was the case, for the 2018-2019 financial year would include a 4.5% wage increase.


Rather than complicate the matter confusing everyone, I will ask you to look at it differently. It is a 4 year deal, the first 18 months are written off as a wage freeze. The next 2.5 years you have increases of 3% pa (excluding compounding). 3% x 2.5 = 7.5%. You are to get 3% in 2016, 3% in 2017 and 1.5% in 2018. Added together it is 7.5%.

[Redphantom]

As one of those yet to return to work , I have been contacted by the company and as soon as the vote is confirmed we will be contacted to arrange our dates to be brought back in.
I think someone brought up the subject of grade points during the term of the agreement but as far as I read the document the grades system is not affected by the wage freeze... People can still get regraded. Perhaps Steve can clarify this.

[Nassensteins Monster]

I don't know what you are doing with your calculations monster however you appear to have mixed calendar years with financial years. The wage rises that had generally occurred on 1 Jan will move to 1 July so the "year" rises are measured in is now the financial one.

As for the difference between the back half of years 2 and 4, it is as follows. Year 2 in your calculations ends 31 Dec but you know already that there is no rise on 1 Jan (because they have shifted to mid year). It is a known 0. Year 4 however concludes and we do not know what the outcome from 1 Jan would be because you will be ready for a new EA.

Fedsec, we'll have to agree to disagree. I annualised the pay rises by both calendar year and financial year and assumed zero for the last half of FY2019. In my view, half of a half is a quarter, not a half. But as I said, I'm just being pedantic, and I'm comfortable with the price for peace, stability and 65 jobs restored.

We'll wait and see what happens in Jan 2019. Unfortunately due to previous history I have little trust in the company, and I won't be counting my chickens before they're hatched.

I do however have faith that my association is working in the best interests of all its members, and thank you all for a job well done.

[Clipped]

You are to get 3% in 2016, 3% in 2017 and 1.5% in 2018. Added together it is 7.5%.

Over the life of the agreement it is actually a 7.68% rise. Yes, it's modest but in the grand scheme of things, it's a win-win for both parties.

We've rolled over our EA T&C's and helped our mates back, a modest pay increase to boot. I'm pretty happy.

Thanks again, Steve and team.

[griffin one]

Ink on EA agreement not even dry and blokes from sections who watched people get marched now working heaps of O/T
As for voting yes will wait for the ALAEA feedback meetings some unanswered questions and dont trust current wording of agreement.

[Bootstrap1]

Griffin they must have been tired of waiting for your email to say it is OK to work OT again.

Things are starting to look up. Be happy about that and stop whining.

[griffin one]

Don't worry be happy.
bootstrap
glad your drinking the cool aid

[Bootstrap1]

I don't do coolaid. And if you are wondering, I have been OT free since last year so I am not trying to justify others doing it to clear my conscience.

But seriously, when is it OK?

What makes you holier than thou to say they can't resume extra hours?

No doubt some people have been hurting from a lack of OT in support of their colleagues. As I wrote before things are looking up, the signs are there the EBA will be voted in.

This is no doubt great news for all of us and our mates waiting to return to the hangar.

[CoolB1Banana]

I can't believe some of you people certify aircraft.

It's an 18 month wage freeze then 3%pa for the remainder of the 4yr agreement.

It's that simple.

Ask your high school teacher to explain if you still don't get it and leave the adults to their discussion.

[Nassensteins Monster]

Hey CoolB1, wanna do a deal on some oranges?

[Nassensteins Monster]

Regarding O/T:

As one of those yet to return to work , I have been contacted by the company and as soon as the vote is confirmed we will be contacted to arrange our dates to be brought back in.

I can only speak for myself. That's all the guidance I need. Part of the reason for the O/T is because these guys aren't in the business. We're a union: we're all in this together. Personally, when the guys are back in the business I'll feel comfortable accepting O/T again, and we all have an equal opportunity to share it if we want it.

[griffin one]

coolb1
If only an EA is that simple.how many are returning?what is an A380 conversation allowance listed in document?
seems to me company could instruct you to take a single day off at their choosing no work this Saturday have a leave day.
very happy to see the guys returning and some stability but after years of abuse can't trust em

[Ngineer]

I think it is about time there was a healthy debate on OT for the benefit of our members without people getting emotional or bad tempered. There is plenty of debate on the floor as to the pro's and con's of working it in this climate. (Whilst the majority of us are playing it safe ATM).

We all need to be on the same page.

[CoolB1Banana]

No need for a debate Ngineer, it's simple.

Any union member that works OT while the said union are attempting to get other members jobs reinstated is a dog.

The way things are going, the guys will be back in a few weeks. Are you really that desperate for extra money that you can't wait that long?

Everyone knows who the dogs are and funnily enough, the same names come up every time the rest of the members are towing the line.

You will be remembered...

[Gas Bags]

That's showin 'em coolb1........

[Ngineer]

No need for a debate Ngineer, it's simple.

I disagree. 65 staff laid off, no-one works OT, planes still go out on time..... what exactly did you prove?

Its a question that needs to be asked, not fobbed off without any thought given (regardless of what you or I may think of those that choose do do it).

you really that desperate for extra money that you can't wait that long?

OT is not my thing, never was. But hang in there, after a few more weeks you can fill your troughs with all the OT your snouts desire.

[Ngineer]

when the guys are back in the business I'll feel comfortable accepting O/T again

The way things are going, the guys will be back in a few weeks. Are you really that desperate for extra money that you can't wait that long?

But seriously, when is it OK?

Ink on EA agreement not even dry and blokes from sections who watched people get marched now working heaps of O/T

You all ban OT because it cost jobs, but rush in to do it again when the fallen ones return to work??

I am lost with that arguement fellas.....

A ship of fools.

[Nassensteins Monster]

You all ban OT because it cost jobs, but rush in to do it again when the fallen ones return to work??

I am lost with that arguement fellas.....

A ship of fools.

Who's rushing? Just the usual few. And don't be so quick to rush to judgement against those who in normal times work the extra hours, just because O/T is not your thing.

I'll reiterate my position, with important bits emphasised:

I can only speak for myself. That's all the guidance I need. Part of the reason for the O/T is because these guys aren't in the business. We're a union: we're all in this together. Personally, when the guys are back in the business I'll feel comfortable accepting O/T again, and we all have an equal opportunity to share it if we want it.

I'll work O/T when I damned well please, but I'll only choose to do it when I can share it with 65 colleagues who just a few short weeks ago were facing a bleak future.

What was proven? From what I hear from Bullsh!t Towers, more than you may realise.