Yes to night flights at Queenstown
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Yes to night flights at Queenstown
Yes to night flights at Queenstown | Radio New Zealand News
Queenstown Airport is to introduce night flights after a two-year investigation to prove the safety case.
The Civil Aviation Authority has approved the proposal, which will require pilots to use satellite technology to fly in darkness through the Southern Alps.
The airport will need to widen its runway and install special lights on the mountains surrounding Queenstown.
But airport chief executive Scott Paterson said being able to fly in and out of Queenstown after dark was a game changer.
Currently in winter, planes have to take off by 5.30pm.
Mr Paterson said that did not work for skiers who wanted to return to Australia after a full day on the slopes.
"It aligns very clearly with the Tourism Industry Association goals of improving connectivity for New Zealand with the rest of the world. Currently you can get to one of the long haul hubs late in the evening but you can't get to Queenstown."
The cost of the plan will be $10 million. Airlines are now considering it.
The Civil Aviation Authority has approved the proposal, which will require pilots to use satellite technology to fly in darkness through the Southern Alps.
The airport will need to widen its runway and install special lights on the mountains surrounding Queenstown.
But airport chief executive Scott Paterson said being able to fly in and out of Queenstown after dark was a game changer.
Currently in winter, planes have to take off by 5.30pm.
Mr Paterson said that did not work for skiers who wanted to return to Australia after a full day on the slopes.
"It aligns very clearly with the Tourism Industry Association goals of improving connectivity for New Zealand with the rest of the world. Currently you can get to one of the long haul hubs late in the evening but you can't get to Queenstown."
The cost of the plan will be $10 million. Airlines are now considering it.
After driving via Cardrona over the crown range to Queenstown, I think I understand the problem.
I cant post my photo but I was standing at the lookout watching a Jetstar aircraft flying down the valley on approach to Queenstown.....below me.
I cant post my photo but I was standing at the lookout watching a Jetstar aircraft flying down the valley on approach to Queenstown.....below me.
No resource consent or local council problems as the airport already has the consents to operate up until 22:00. This was more a process to convince CASA and the CAA that it is safe to operate in there after dark. The recommended infrastructure changes seem pretty sensible to me.
- widen to 45 m
- an approach lighting system to be installed
- off airport guidance lighting to be installed
- each operator to be individually approved
- specific pilots who have been trained within each approved airline.
They are saying the first commercial flights to be winter 2016.
- widen to 45 m
- an approach lighting system to be installed
- off airport guidance lighting to be installed
- each operator to be individually approved
- specific pilots who have been trained within each approved airline.
They are saying the first commercial flights to be winter 2016.
I really fail to see any major problem here. Remember when we used to have diff Mins for day & night Ops years ago? They changed that as what's the diff between being in cloud with zero ref to outside as against night time (in cloud or otherwise)? Nothing.
Often it's easier to have the req'd Viz at night than it is in daytime.
Cairns is an Eg, we come damned close to high terrain in & out of that place, being doing so for years.
It's more about A/C performance than anything else.
Improving the dromes conditions will help reduce the risks but it won't stop man from flying into a mountain in a perfectly serviceable plane day or night!
Wmk2
Often it's easier to have the req'd Viz at night than it is in daytime.
Cairns is an Eg, we come damned close to high terrain in & out of that place, being doing so for years.
It's more about A/C performance than anything else.
Improving the dromes conditions will help reduce the risks but it won't stop man from flying into a mountain in a perfectly serviceable plane day or night!
Wmk2
From a union point of you it was the visual manoeuvring (not approach or terrain on approach) required once visual that they were concerned about. NZAPLA wanted higher minima and some approach lighting for commercial night ops. These improvements go further that this which is good. Sometimes off the RNP you do require some aggressive movements to gain the profile, the more ques we have at night the better. 
I understand that but there has always been some maneuvering involved in any NPA App some more than others but any ground Viz aids will be of more benefit.
I've flown into that joint in the good 'ole days, kept my eyes closed most of the time
Wmk2
I've flown into that joint in the good 'ole days, kept my eyes closed most of the time
Wmk2
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cost $10 million(estimate)
real cost is probably higher much higher & who wants to pay that ? Certainly not the airlines.
Apparently NZ ski numbers are down, way down on last year, told due to price increases.
In Brisbane Sunday mail Escape section Flight Centre has a full page advert on last page.
It says Queenstown return from only $763 (nothing included except taxes) & that supposed to be a deal.
On same page it says LAX for $1091. I actually rang & they said that was for Fiji Airways, but Qantas, Virgin, Delta only $100-$200 more around same time.
People must look at that & say only $300 more to LAX return. No wonder NZ numbers are down.
Apparently NZ ski numbers are down, way down on last year, told due to price increases.
In Brisbane Sunday mail Escape section Flight Centre has a full page advert on last page.
It says Queenstown return from only $763 (nothing included except taxes) & that supposed to be a deal.
On same page it says LAX for $1091. I actually rang & they said that was for Fiji Airways, but Qantas, Virgin, Delta only $100-$200 more around same time.
People must look at that & say only $300 more to LAX return. No wonder NZ numbers are down.
'Sunny' I have seen a couple of YouTube Vids on Queenytown (great to observe) & as I mentioned have actually flown into there a couple of times but not in the 'Bus' on that App.
Sure it's a higher risk App than most but the plane doesn't know that it's just the drivers behind the steering wheels:-)
As I have mentioned b4 it's more about A/C perf than anything else where the risk is.
Anyway with 2day's modern tech stuff this shouldn't be rocket science at all, it's more risk assessment stuff.
Wmk2
Sure it's a higher risk App than most but the plane doesn't know that it's just the drivers behind the steering wheels:-)
As I have mentioned b4 it's more about A/C perf than anything else where the risk is.
Anyway with 2day's modern tech stuff this shouldn't be rocket science at all, it's more risk assessment stuff.
Wmk2
The move to nighttime RNP approaches at Queenstown is a sensible development.
RNP by day has proved its worth over a number of years and I know of no reason why it shouldn't be just as successful once the sun goes down.
The airport will require considerable upgrading before night ops can start, and some of these improvements (runway widening for example) can only make daytime ops even safer.
There will still be occasions when aircraft can't get in because of weather. The problem usually is not the cloud base but turbulence preventing stabilised approaches. There was such a day last week when I think there were more missed approaches and diversions than landings.
RNP by day has proved its worth over a number of years and I know of no reason why it shouldn't be just as successful once the sun goes down.
The airport will require considerable upgrading before night ops can start, and some of these improvements (runway widening for example) can only make daytime ops even safer.
There will still be occasions when aircraft can't get in because of weather. The problem usually is not the cloud base but turbulence preventing stabilised approaches. There was such a day last week when I think there were more missed approaches and diversions than landings.
I think if you lived in NZQN the reason would be quite obvious.....especially if you owned a business. The business owners don't care how much the tickets cost, they just need the numbers to keep growing ( as they have) so that they sell more of their products ( hamburgers, pizza, coffee, panadol etc etc etc).
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airport open more hours doesn't mean more flights, it may just mean flights are more spread out.
For flights to take off in evening means they must fly in at that time as well (no airline wants aircraft to sit on ground for more than ~30 mins, especially at QN where they might get stuck if weather comes in).
Who wants to arrive at ZQN at 1900 ? (except maybe a few kiwis from AKL, WLG or CHC) departing after work that day. Does help departures from Australia.
It would help delays though. At present I think aircraft MUSt depart 45 mons prior to sunset. If eg. a delay at OZ end, aircraft could still take off with knowledge of no effective curfew.
For flights to take off in evening means they must fly in at that time as well (no airline wants aircraft to sit on ground for more than ~30 mins, especially at QN where they might get stuck if weather comes in).
Who wants to arrive at ZQN at 1900 ? (except maybe a few kiwis from AKL, WLG or CHC) departing after work that day. Does help departures from Australia.
It would help delays though. At present I think aircraft MUSt depart 45 mons prior to sunset. If eg. a delay at OZ end, aircraft could still take off with knowledge of no effective curfew.
XPT, I'm not so sure about that.
In summer flights are still happening at 8pm local. Local business people complain that in winter they can't do a full day's work in Auckland or Wellington and get back home the same day.
And spreading out the international arrivals would be a good thing. On weekends in the ski season the airport gets quite congested as all the flights from Australia arrive within a short period during the afternoon.
BNE1320, passenger numbers to ZQN have been growing steadily for years now, especially international passengers, who are not necessarily Australian. Why do you think there will suddenly be a big drop in demand?
In summer flights are still happening at 8pm local. Local business people complain that in winter they can't do a full day's work in Auckland or Wellington and get back home the same day.
And spreading out the international arrivals would be a good thing. On weekends in the ski season the airport gets quite congested as all the flights from Australia arrive within a short period during the afternoon.
BNE1320, passenger numbers to ZQN have been growing steadily for years now, especially international passengers, who are not necessarily Australian. Why do you think there will suddenly be a big drop in demand?