Yes to night flights at Queenstown
Join Date: May 2011
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wholesalers are saying NZ skiing packages sold ex Australia are down, way down due to price increases.
Have a look at airfares BNE/ZQN/BNE. For only a few hundred $ more you can go to LAX.
Also, Australian ski resorts are getting more business as people can & are driving instead of flying.
Look at NSW, you can no longer fly to Cooma & who would bother flying SYD/CBR & still have over 2 hour transfer. It would be quicker to drive.
Similarly Mt Hotham has lost all flights this year as well. QF flew SYD/MHU on 44 returns last year.
The loss of OOM & MHU options should imply an increase in pax to ZQN but it hasn't. Maybe the economy & budgetary cutbacks have scared people into not spending money.
Have a look at airfares BNE/ZQN/BNE. For only a few hundred $ more you can go to LAX.
Also, Australian ski resorts are getting more business as people can & are driving instead of flying.
Look at NSW, you can no longer fly to Cooma & who would bother flying SYD/CBR & still have over 2 hour transfer. It would be quicker to drive.
Similarly Mt Hotham has lost all flights this year as well. QF flew SYD/MHU on 44 returns last year.
The loss of OOM & MHU options should imply an increase in pax to ZQN but it hasn't. Maybe the economy & budgetary cutbacks have scared people into not spending money.
Really? So how can my sister company fly A330's DAY and NIGHT into Kathmandu airport in the Himalayas using old fashioned VOR approaches? ( we are not yet approved to fly RNP's )
Plenty of big rocks around there I'm here to tell ya...
Now QF and NZ have got super accurate RNP approaches using 2 independent GPS systems, FMS, IRS and land based Nav Aids as well to fly between the hills in Queenstown during daytime. Fit the proper lighting and what's the problem with going in there at night assuming the cloud base and visibility are acceptable for night?
Like we've said, the Aircraft doesn't know it's dark......I assume the crew can land in the dark once acceptable visual reference is assured using runway lights can't they?
Like I said, a load of tosh.
More Australia NZ OHS overkill.
Plenty of big rocks around there I'm here to tell ya...
Now QF and NZ have got super accurate RNP approaches using 2 independent GPS systems, FMS, IRS and land based Nav Aids as well to fly between the hills in Queenstown during daytime. Fit the proper lighting and what's the problem with going in there at night assuming the cloud base and visibility are acceptable for night?
Like we've said, the Aircraft doesn't know it's dark......I assume the crew can land in the dark once acceptable visual reference is assured using runway lights can't they?
Like I said, a load of tosh.
More Australia NZ OHS overkill.
Yes BUT I was referring to Kathmandu which DOES use the VOR for approaches DAY and NIGHT into an Airport 4,300' AMSL with rather large mountains all around.
VNKT has:-
VOR A--a 90 degree offset circling approach for up to CAT D day and night
VOR B--also a 90 degree offset circling approach but only CAT A B day and night, CAT C day only
VOR 02--straight in 4.4 deg approach day and night
RNAV ( RNP ) 02 day and night
My sister company can only use the VOR, not yet approved for RNP.
Queenstown cannot be that hard to do at night for a qualified competent crew using ultra accurate RNP approaches.
VNKT has:-
VOR A--a 90 degree offset circling approach for up to CAT D day and night
VOR B--also a 90 degree offset circling approach but only CAT A B day and night, CAT C day only
VOR 02--straight in 4.4 deg approach day and night
RNAV ( RNP ) 02 day and night
My sister company can only use the VOR, not yet approved for RNP.
Queenstown cannot be that hard to do at night for a qualified competent crew using ultra accurate RNP approaches.
Last edited by nitpicker330; 10th May 2014 at 08:41.
I'm not going to sit here and say that Queenstown is the hardest place to operate into in the world because I'm sure it's not. However those that have such a cavalier attitude to the place probably haven't spent much time in there. There is no one thing that you can say that stands out to make the place dangerous. But when you add all the factors up (I'm not going to list them because those that know, know) it is an airport that commands your respect and attention.
Night ops are different to just being IMC but when prepared for properly I believe they can be carried out safely enough.
Night ops are different to just being IMC but when prepared for properly I believe they can be carried out safely enough.
Join Date: May 2004
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OK, I will use your direct quote then... (Nitpicker)
For the Queenstown approach (RNP AR), one deselects VOR/DME updating in the FMGC as part of the procedure.
So, please don't compare apples with pears!
Oh, BTW, I have operated into both Innsbruck and Chambery, in the Bus & Boeing (non RNP), none of these places should be treated lightly.
Good night!
Now QF and NZ have got super accurate RNP approaches using 2 independent GPS systems, FMS, IRS and land based Nav Aids as well to fly between the hills in Queenstown during daytime.
So, please don't compare apples with pears!
Oh, BTW, I have operated into both Innsbruck and Chambery, in the Bus & Boeing (non RNP), none of these places should be treated lightly.
Good night!
Oooh testy little fella ain't ya.
Yes I'm aware I said that, I'm also aware that the traditional ground based aids aren't used for the approach. I'm also aware there are other ground based approaches for the airport that are not RNP.
Anyway all I'm trying to say is that RNP is sooooooo accurate it should be ok day and night for an experienced competent crew with appropriate lighting aids on the ground to help them manoeuvre visually in suitable weather.
Good night to you to..
Yes I'm aware I said that, I'm also aware that the traditional ground based aids aren't used for the approach. I'm also aware there are other ground based approaches for the airport that are not RNP.
Anyway all I'm trying to say is that RNP is sooooooo accurate it should be ok day and night for an experienced competent crew with appropriate lighting aids on the ground to help them manoeuvre visually in suitable weather.
Good night to you to..
After driving via Cardrona over the crown range to Queenstown, I think I understand the problem.
I cant post my photo but I was standing at the lookout watching a Jetstar aircraft flying down the valley on approach to Queenstown.....below me.
I cant post my photo but I was standing at the lookout watching a Jetstar aircraft flying down the valley on approach to Queenstown.....below me.
That used to be a fun road to drive over....once upon a time....back when it was a gravel road with no crash barriers protecting motorists from the huge drops over the side. It resulted in bugger-all traffic on the road (the tourists were too scared to drive over it and went the long way around via the Kawerau Gorge instead, and many Kiwis likewise avoided it like the plague), which meant that those of us who actually know how to drive fast on narrow, windy gravel roads could get between Queenstown and Wanaka (and vice-versa) in super-quick time. Then, they upgraded the road, and now it is a slow trip due to all the road maggots (camper vans) and slow-drivers who crawl over the hill.
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Man, I love Queenstown. And the prospect of getting a half day or full days skiing in before hopping on a flight would be gold. And if it's now as expensive as what you're saying I'd use the opportunity to ski Japan.........until the price in Queenstown became comparable or reasonable, market forces!
I'd be very careful which airline I chose to fly in there at night on
I'd be very careful which airline I chose to fly in there at night on
Last edited by Jack Ranga; 7th Jun 2014 at 07:41.
As a humble VOR/NDB guy, can someone explain in simple terms how you monitor the flight path of the aircraft as it does the procedural orbit on the RNP approach. Do you match up your turning path indicator on the PFD with the track as you turn. I know its all autopilot driven, but what happens if the autopilot has a failure mid turn. How do you stay within the prescribed turn radius.
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Nav scales that tell you how far left or right, up and down. If you loose the autopilot, select the other one...
But seriously, you can hand fly to within the tolerances for the departure and the approach if you have to, even when you loose a donk, like in the sim.
But seriously, you can hand fly to within the tolerances for the departure and the approach if you have to, even when you loose a donk, like in the sim.