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9 x J*HK new A320's parked at toulouse !!!

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9 x J*HK new A320's parked at toulouse !!!

Old 19th Mar 2014, 04:25
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XPT
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9 x J*HK new A320's parked at toulouse !!!

just read this ...

Jetstar Hong Kong planes stay grounded as wait continues

Surely JQ could use some of these aircraft, even if only on a part time basis, eg. in peak times like Fri & Sun pm, Easter, school holidays etc. when flights are full both domestically & internationally.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 04:28
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when this same thing happened to Virgin America didn't they lease out aircraft to other carriers?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 04:55
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At least Qantas is only paying for 1/3 as these are JHK aircraft.

Given all the recent gnashing of teeth about the 65% line in the sand I don't think Aus domestic needs any more capacity.

Jetstar Asia doesn't need anymore as it has stopped expanding thanks to fare war.

Jetstar Japan is also awaiting approval of a second base to let it expand.

So no easy slots to put these aircraft to use.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 05:05
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And this is also where good contract managers come to the fore - I doubt these aircraft would be owned by JHK, they'd be leased. As such, these aircraft may (or may not) have yet even been accepted by either the owner or the operator. There are many tricks to be played on both sides of the fence here - these parked aircraft may not yet be costing QF or JHK any money whatsoever....
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 05:12
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can think of 1 obvious route for at least 1 aircraft ... JQ do SYD/NAN/SYD but no QF group airlines does MEL/NAN/MEL in daylight hours (FJ does MEL/NAN red eyes which connects with virtually nothing)
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 05:47
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On a related note. 20 training captains getting the chop JQ Aust. Phone calls coming thick and fast this afternoon with the news. Slowdown ahead.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 05:51
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XPT,

Have a look around Australia's domestic airports, and you'll see more JQ A320's parked than you'll see from any other low cost carrier anywhere in the world.

Even Qantas, which is supposedly inefficient, generally gets its aircraft flying. JQ however have aircraft being towed around airports constantly, especially Melbourne where it isn't unusual to see at least 4 aircraft parked on standoff bays, plus more on taxiways, and more on the gates.

The last thing they need is more aircraft.

The other consideration - JQ actually don't own these aircraft - in all cases they have another majority stakeholder, who may not be particularly impressed when Jetstar start using one of the co-owned companies assets without telling them...
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 06:30
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The other consideration - JQ actually don't own these aircraft - in all cases they have another majority stakeholder, who may not be particularly impressed when Jetstar start using one of the co-owned companies assets without telling them...
Perhaps not, however, the overseas Jetstar loss making adventures are being funded at the expense of Qantas.

A new A320 is $91.5 million.

Qantas owns 45% of Jetstar Japan x 24 aircraft = $988 million
Qantas owns 100% of Jetstar Asia x 19 aircraft = $1738 million (perhaps high assumed new prices)
Qantas owns 33% of Jetstar Hong Kong x 18 aircraft = $543 million
+an amount at Jetstar Vietnam, who knows.

An approximately $3.2billion outlay in aircraft here - funded by the retreat and non replacement of fleet of Qantas international, destroying its economy of scale it previously had and lumbering it with aircraft that every other airline has retired due to inefficiency.

In other words
14 A330-200's
or
11 B777-300ER's
or
13 B787-9's

just from Jetstar franchise fleet purchases, that are yet to make a return on investment. Jetstar Asia is 10 years old! Factor in start up costs and accumulated losses you could easily add a few more aircraft to the list above.

I just wonder now they have had to restructure the whole future of 110 A320 purchasing arrangements, how much more money has been lost.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 06:37
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PEAKS & TROUGHS

comfy chair

There are always busy times & quiet times. Perhaps JQ have aircraft parked when not busy, or they've come off lease & owners don't want cost of flying to Nevada desert.

Someone is paying to have these aircraft sit there, gathering dust & being maintained.

Even if QF only paying 1/3 it's still enormous cost for no nett gain. In light of QF loses, it's extremely significant.

They could surely get a part time lease organised from other parties, or lease them to another airline anywhere.

Anything much be better than letting them sit chewing up $$$.

Even if 1 or 2 did peak hour flights from say AVV to BNE, SYD.

AVV could now also be used instead of MEL/NAN which might effect bilateral, whereas AVV/NAN wouldn't.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 06:52
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Are we sure Qantas is paying 1/3 of the costs of Jetstar HK in the startup phase? Eg did Pansy Ho agree to this while signing up to be a 1/3 shareholder in Jetstar Hong Kong? If you were her, would you agree to it?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 06:54
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Bullseye DrPepz.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 07:07
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JQ however have aircraft being towed around airports constantly, especially Melbourne where it isn't unusual to see at least 4 aircraft parked on standoff bays, plus more on taxiways, and more on the gates.
you do know this is because JQ have 5 confirmed overnight bays for A320's (and during the day share those 5 gates with Qlink)

and upto 60+ departures a day, currently due to gate restrictions there are up to 30 tows a day in melbourne, this will change when the low cost terminal is built

and aircraft parked on the taxiways are because the airport has not got enough international gates, everyday its the same JQ EK SQ BI & QF wide bodies parked wherever they can
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 07:09
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Just like Dennis Choo pays for the Jetstar Asia leases? Yea right! Isn't this misleading of Jayne? How is it that the $3 billion is now $2.4 billion?
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 07:55
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XPT,
The plan was that if approval took some time that the spare 320's would be filtered through the JQ network. However QF gave up this option when they sold the majority stake in JQHK down to 33% in an attempt to get operator approval. Now the HK board have refused the allow 'their' 320's to be used. QF/JQ can do nothing about it because they're only a minority owner, and those planes are now parked.
The question is whether QF is footing 33% of the bill in Toulouse, or the whole lot. Depends on their purchase contract. I doubt the other owners would be so happy to have their planes parked if they actually had to pay for it...
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 07:56
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600ft-lb.

Yes those are aircraft values (and you would get a discount to book)
but Jetstar is an LCC - everything is LEASED.

We have been told that the total amount invested is much less, indeed less than the cost of a single A380.

Now of course planes that are being leased and not flying are definitely losing money
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 08:00
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moa

Qantas, Airbus seal $9B A320 deal - International Business Times

Qantas Airlines has finalized a $9 billion deal to purchase 110 of Airbus' A320 aircraft as it gears for its expansion plans into Asia.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 08:09
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Just like Dennis Choo pays for the Jetstar Asia leases? Yea right! Isn't this misleading of Jayne? How is it that the $3 billion is now $2.4 billion?
The devil is in the detail of the 2009 annual report from Qantas. Page 126 for those interested.

On 8 April 2009, the Qantas Group increased its ownership in Orangestar Investment Holdings Pte Limited and its controlled entities (the Jetstar Asia Group) to 49% from 45%. The transaction was completed via a newly incorporated entity, Newstar Investment Holding Pte. Ltd. (Newstar), in which the Qantas Group owns 49 per cent. Through funding provided by the Qantas Group, Newstar acquired 100 per cent of the Jetstar Asia Group. The substance of this transaction is such that the Qantas Group can control (as defined by AASB 127 Consolidated and Separate Financial Statements) 100 per cent of the economic interest in the Jetstar Asia Group. Consequently, Jetstar Asia Group is consolidated in the Qantas Group Financial Statements. Prior to the completion of the transaction, the Qantas Group reviewed the carrying value of its equity investment in the Jetstar Asia Group, resulting in the reversal of approximately $19million (before tax) losses.
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Old 19th Mar 2014, 11:25
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Not to mention the four at NRT with engine covers on and the 10 or so that float around doing very little. It's not unusual to see 14 on the ground in Narita.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 02:38
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The new 320's most probably are owned by a QF holding company then leased on to various JQ businesses.

Part of QF's strategy in Asia of making a return is not in the core business of a LCC, but in the lease of assets to a JQ business and the fees they would reap out of consultancy, reservations and contracting from head office.

While JQ HK sits on the ground, there probably is a caveat that the aircraft will not be leased until operational to reduce the impact on QF's essential partners. Even though QF only has a 33% interest in JQ HK, their exposure will be tremendous as they are essentially the drivers behind the business model.

Joyce announced JQ HK to deflect the loss of confidence in the Red Star Asia plan, he then had to scramble to find investors to overcome HK regulatory hurdles.

Last edited by KABOY; 20th Mar 2014 at 03:27.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 06:23
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Life limited components

I have been away from the maintenance planning area for a while but can someone discuss the ramifications of the subject aircraft being parked, but their associated life limited components/calendar lifed items continuing to acrue time before a due date for overhaul? As an example, the landing gear used to be limited to several years before overhaul? Other component parts were somewhat less in TBO.
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