NZ105 diversion to Canberra
Thread Starter
NZ105 diversion to Canberra
Leaving work today I noticed an Air New Zealand 767 arriving in Canberra about 1730. Flight Aware showing NZ105 diverted enroute to Sydney. Some nasty looking WX this afternoon...
Thread Starter
Maybe it was running low.... I left myself open for such a response. But as a non pilot, I find it unusual that a relatively fast moving storm cell (7pm weather report shows Sydney now clear) would prompt a diversion rather than holding. I am assuming a 767 would have the endurance to hold for an hour or so and that would be a cheaper and more convenient option than a diversion? I'm just interested in how the industry works both from the cockpit and management point of view and found it interesting as Air NZ don't serve Canberra. Perhaps I should have posted a question rather than an observation, but I was hoping for a bit of education from those far more wise than I...
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The chaos was caused by the storm hitting Sydney earlier than was forecast in the TAF, resulting in extensive holding that was backing up to over an hour. Numerous diversions to BN, ML, CB and WLM, with a few pans due fuel thrown in for good measure.
A very professional display by all concerned today (except maybe met
)
A very professional display by all concerned today (except maybe met
)
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
maybe this
Spectacular storm thunders over Sydney
7:05 AM Thursday Mar 6, 2014
A gigantic storm front moved in over Sydney yesterday and residents were quick to upload dramatic pictures of it to the internet.
Huge clouds hundreds of feet high, with some shaped like giant tubes, loomed menacingly over the city during rush hour.
As forecasters warned of heavy rain and flash flooding, Twitter and Facebook became awash with pictures of the looming storm, with one describing the conditions as 'apocalyptic'.
Lightning strikes over Sydney Harbour next to the iconic Opera House Jason Murray tweeted 'b****y hell' as the storm rolled in. Another wrote: 'Bad time for bike commute home. OK, that's a storm alright.'
Josh Noble thought the clouds reminded him of a certain Hollywood blockbuster.
'It's Independence Day,' he wrote.
The clouds completely dwarfed the city's landmarks and the storm forced flights to be diverted.
Torrential rain, meanwhile, created severe road delays, with reports of jams several miles in length stretching back from Harbour Bridge.
***
Meanwhile, the sightseer of 4014 may have to pay a virtual visit to the Sydney Opera House or Statue of Liberty, according to a climate study that warns of dramatic ocean encroachment on heritage sites.
While modern civilisation is fascinated by the pyramids of Egypt, Rome's Colosseum and the Parthenon in Greece, much of this inheritance as well as our own cultural legacy may be lost to sea-levels rising as much as 1.8 metres due to global warming, researchers said.
Out of more than 700 listed UNESCO World Heritage sites, nearly 140 risk being flooded in 2000 years' time, they projected in a study published this week in the journal Environmental Research Letters.
These also include the Tower of London, Venice in Italy, Japan's Hiroshima Peace Memorial and Robben Island in South Africa where Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for 18 years.
The calculation is based on sea-level rises associated with temperatures three degrees Celsius higher than pre-Industrial Revolution levels. The UN-targeted maximum rise is 2C.
"Our analysis shows how serious the long-term impacts for our cultural heritage will be if climate change is not mitigated," study co-author Anders Levermann from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) said in a statement.
The average global temperature has already increased by 0.8C on pre-industrial levels.
According to the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), it could rise by an additional 2.6 to 4.8C by the end of this century, on a scenario for high emissions of greenhouse gases.
Levermann and his team set out to study the impact on cultural heritage of climate change - a phenomenon whose effects are usually measured for nature, the economy and agriculture.
7:05 AM Thursday Mar 6, 2014
A gigantic storm front moved in over Sydney yesterday and residents were quick to upload dramatic pictures of it to the internet.
Huge clouds hundreds of feet high, with some shaped like giant tubes, loomed menacingly over the city during rush hour.
As forecasters warned of heavy rain and flash flooding, Twitter and Facebook became awash with pictures of the looming storm, with one describing the conditions as 'apocalyptic'.
Lightning strikes over Sydney Harbour next to the iconic Opera House Jason Murray tweeted 'b****y hell' as the storm rolled in. Another wrote: 'Bad time for bike commute home. OK, that's a storm alright.'
Josh Noble thought the clouds reminded him of a certain Hollywood blockbuster.
'It's Independence Day,' he wrote.
The clouds completely dwarfed the city's landmarks and the storm forced flights to be diverted.
Torrential rain, meanwhile, created severe road delays, with reports of jams several miles in length stretching back from Harbour Bridge.
***
Meanwhile, the sightseer of 4014 may have to pay a virtual visit to the Sydney Opera House or Statue of Liberty, according to a climate study that warns of dramatic ocean encroachment on heritage sites.
While modern civilisation is fascinated by the pyramids of Egypt, Rome's Colosseum and the Parthenon in Greece, much of this inheritance as well as our own cultural legacy may be lost to sea-levels rising as much as 1.8 metres due to global warming, researchers said.
Out of more than 700 listed UNESCO World Heritage sites, nearly 140 risk being flooded in 2000 years' time, they projected in a study published this week in the journal Environmental Research Letters.
These also include the Tower of London, Venice in Italy, Japan's Hiroshima Peace Memorial and Robben Island in South Africa where Nelson Mandela was imprisoned for 18 years.
The calculation is based on sea-level rises associated with temperatures three degrees Celsius higher than pre-Industrial Revolution levels. The UN-targeted maximum rise is 2C.
"Our analysis shows how serious the long-term impacts for our cultural heritage will be if climate change is not mitigated," study co-author Anders Levermann from the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research (PIK) said in a statement.
The average global temperature has already increased by 0.8C on pre-industrial levels.
According to the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), it could rise by an additional 2.6 to 4.8C by the end of this century, on a scenario for high emissions of greenhouse gases.
Levermann and his team set out to study the impact on cultural heritage of climate change - a phenomenon whose effects are usually measured for nature, the economy and agriculture.
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: FG central
Age: 53
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not unusual. I've seen 4 or more aircraft parked around the airport when weather is dicey in Sydney or Melbourne, and more than one international flight.
Most common on summer evenings for obvious reasons.
Most common on summer evenings for obvious reasons.
Whats a PAN due fuel?
If you stuff me around any more I will give you a MAYDAY due fuel.
Ah ok, couldn't find that one in my jepps...
I don't see why you can't make a Pan call with the nature of the urgency situation as fuel state just because there is a minimum fuel call layed out in the Jepps and AiP.
It is not written anywhere that I know of that a Pan call should not be used if the urgency condition is fuel related. The minimum fuel call is not the same as a. Pan call so you can't replace one with the other.
Content of PAN PAN Message
2.3.1 The urgency message should consist of as many of the following elements spoken distinctly and if possible, in the following order:
(a) name of station addressed;
(b) identification of the aircraft;
(c) nature of the urgency condition;
(d) intention of the pilot;
(e) present position, level (FL or altitude), and heading; and
(f) any other useful information.
2.3.1 The urgency message should consist of as many of the following elements spoken distinctly and if possible, in the following order:
(a) name of station addressed;
(b) identification of the aircraft;
(c) nature of the urgency condition;
(d) intention of the pilot;
(e) present position, level (FL or altitude), and heading; and
(f) any other useful information.
ICAO and IATA have introduced the following amendment to Annex 6, Aircraft Operations and Doc.4444 PANS-ATM, effective 15 November 2012. The amendment introduces new standard 'MINIMUM FUEL' and 'MAYDAY FUEL' R/T phraseology for pilots and ATC controllers to avoid confusion.
Minimum Fuel
The Commander/PIC shall advise ATC by declaring 'MINIMUM FUEL', when it is anticipated that the amount of fuel remaining at landing at the airport of intended landing, based on the current ATC clearance or EAT is approaching the planned final CFP Reserve Fuel.
This indicates to the controller that the aircraft, whilst it is operating normally, all planned airport options have been reduced to the specific airport of intended landing and any change to the existing clearance may result in landing with less than the planned final CFP Reserve Fuel.
This is not an emergency situation but an indication that an emergency situation (MAYDAY FUEL) is possible should any additional delay occur. The declaration of 'Minimum Fuel' requires the controller to keep the Commander/PIC informed of any delays.
MAYDAY Fuel (Emergency Fuel)
The Commander/PIC shall inform ATC by declaring 'MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY FUEL' when it is assessed that the aircraft will land with less than CFP Reserve Fuel at the nominated destination airport. This is an emergency and the aircraft shall be given priority over other traffic in the landing sequence.
Minimum Fuel
The Commander/PIC shall advise ATC by declaring 'MINIMUM FUEL', when it is anticipated that the amount of fuel remaining at landing at the airport of intended landing, based on the current ATC clearance or EAT is approaching the planned final CFP Reserve Fuel.
This indicates to the controller that the aircraft, whilst it is operating normally, all planned airport options have been reduced to the specific airport of intended landing and any change to the existing clearance may result in landing with less than the planned final CFP Reserve Fuel.
This is not an emergency situation but an indication that an emergency situation (MAYDAY FUEL) is possible should any additional delay occur. The declaration of 'Minimum Fuel' requires the controller to keep the Commander/PIC informed of any delays.
MAYDAY Fuel (Emergency Fuel)
The Commander/PIC shall inform ATC by declaring 'MAYDAY MAYDAY MAYDAY FUEL' when it is assessed that the aircraft will land with less than CFP Reserve Fuel at the nominated destination airport. This is an emergency and the aircraft shall be given priority over other traffic in the landing sequence.
No black eye for me Bloggsy, I'm ready to use the " new " minimum fuel call when it is appropriate , all I was saying is that it's existence doesn't preclude the use of a Pan call where the urgency condition is related to the fuel state. A Pan call achieves different results than a minimum fuel call.For example, as far as I'm aware the Pan call frees up ATC to afford that aircraft priority whereas the minimum fuel call doesn't. That's all I was trying to point out 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Canada
Age: 37
Posts: 630
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Minimum fuel in English speaking countries is great. In non-English speaking countries.... Not so much. A pan pan is far more effective there.
I'm sure as a bunch of highly educated people as yourselves, know that real world ops and book world ops are two different things, and a bit of intelligent thinking will help dictate when either of the two should be used.
I'm sure as a bunch of highly educated people as yourselves, know that real world ops and book world ops are two different things, and a bit of intelligent thinking will help dictate when either of the two should be used.
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: South of equator
Posts: 42
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
That's right, you need a mayday call. There's the story about the pilots who wouldn't say that (face saving??!) so the controller handling wouldn't do anything 'till finally he advised the pilots "say the words", once that happened everything came right.
Williamtown (per ERSA) is not avbl for General Use. Prior permission required for civilian ops.
I believe making a PAN call would be appropriate on diverting to Williamtown if you don't have prior permission.
I believe making a PAN call would be appropriate on diverting to Williamtown if you don't have prior permission.