Qantas Truths according to CAPA
Nunc est bibendum
Trent
......is a very different statement to.....
In fact, they're so different that I'm surprised that you've gone down that road.
Let me give you an example:
What you are saying is that you're happy to continue screwing over F/Os who have more responsibility, work more duty hours and more flying hours in a bid period for 20% less pay than the A380 S/Os.
What you're saying is that you're happy to see some S/Os out of a job and F/Os demoted so that other S/Os can keep taking home exorbitant amounts.
See how the game is played?
A380 second officers make far too much money for what they do (no offence, this is not personal...
what you are saying is akin to "let's shaft the S/Os so we can keep our pay".
Let me give you an example:
what you are saying is akin to "let's shaft the S/Os so we can keep our pay".
What you're saying is that you're happy to see some S/Os out of a job and F/Os demoted so that other S/Os can keep taking home exorbitant amounts.
See how the game is played?
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Keg, you know damn well there is not on any fleet, any S/O who is paid at a higher hourly rate than the most junior F/O, (ie. the most senior 380 S/O get a lower hourly rate than the most junior 767 F/O), and likewise their is not an F/O who is paid at a higher hourly rate than the most junior Captain.
What you are playing games with is the overtime component that 380/747 S/O's get for operating Long Haul..
Are you saying people shouldn't be paid accordingly for the hours/overtime they work?
What you are playing games with is the overtime component that 380/747 S/O's get for operating Long Haul..
Are you saying people shouldn't be paid accordingly for the hours/overtime they work?
Remember that the SO rate is a fixed percentage of the Captain rate. If the SOs get paid too much on the 380 then that says a lot for what the Captains and FOs are getting paid on that type.
Fix the amount Captains get paid and the SO pay will fix itself.
Overtime should have disappeared years ago. Senior crew going to Dallas, LAX - insert senior destination here - already get the benefit of higher density to get more days off. There's no reason they should be getting up to an extra 50 hours a BP - close to 30% extra dough on a 160 hr divisor - for sitting in the crew rest for 7 hours DFW-BNE or LAX-MEL. Pay them for the hours they fly, ie. retain the current pattern credits, but ditch the ADP.
And don't give me the "long haul flying's hard so the extra money is for that" line.
Fix the amount Captains get paid and the SO pay will fix itself.
Overtime should have disappeared years ago. Senior crew going to Dallas, LAX - insert senior destination here - already get the benefit of higher density to get more days off. There's no reason they should be getting up to an extra 50 hours a BP - close to 30% extra dough on a 160 hr divisor - for sitting in the crew rest for 7 hours DFW-BNE or LAX-MEL. Pay them for the hours they fly, ie. retain the current pattern credits, but ditch the ADP.
And don't give me the "long haul flying's hard so the extra money is for that" line.
Join Date: Aug 1998
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I'll just pick up on another point in CAPA's article that REALLY gives me the ****s every time I hear it.
It's not an "end of the line"...to think so is terribly old thinking and ignores the Sth American growing markets! (World Cup Soccer & Olympics coming too)
Tell me, you have the B747's (coz yuh didn't order B777's), so why not deploy them where others can not go???
...over the pole to Chile/Brazil/Argentina and Sth Africa, heck so many markets to tap into from Mexico all the way south! Expand what few are currently done and exploit your 4-engined market advantage!
All goes back to management & fleet decisions again.
...an end of the line legacy carrier like Qantas.
Tell me, you have the B747's (coz yuh didn't order B777's), so why not deploy them where others can not go???
...over the pole to Chile/Brazil/Argentina and Sth Africa, heck so many markets to tap into from Mexico all the way south! Expand what few are currently done and exploit your 4-engined market advantage! All goes back to management & fleet decisions again.
Nunc est bibendum
What you are playing games with is the overtime component that 380/747 S/O's get for operating Long Haul..
Are you saying people shouldn't be paid accordingly for the hours/overtime they work?
Are you saying people shouldn't be paid accordingly for the hours/overtime they work?
Direct anywhere is on the money. Overtime came in when it involved flying arduous multi sector tours of duty and in the classic, little time off. Do you think it's now been distorted just a tad from what was originally intended? Do you reckon that an overtime bill to the tune of approx $70 mill per annum is sustainable let alone justifiable?
This is not an attack on S/Os. It's a cry to stop deluding yourself that there isn't a problem that needs fixing for a multitude of different reasons.
short flights long nights
Keg, for those of us not in Qantas could you explain what is a divisor?
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Post removed because I take no joy in arguing with Keg. I know him to be a good and decent bloke.
We'll just have to disagree on this subject.
ps. I'm right though.
We'll just have to disagree on this subject.
ps. I'm right though.
Last edited by Trent 972; 26th Feb 2014 at 14:16.
