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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 24th Sep 2014, 07:40
  #5081 (permalink)  
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Most pilots were 'offered' those conditions when they joined Qantas, they are entitled to think that those will be the conditions for the duration of their employment.
this is one of the problems afflicting Qantas - an outdated mindset and sense of entitlement. The world movs on. So too should the mindset of many unionists. The gravy train's journey is just not indeterminate.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 08:06
  #5082 (permalink)  
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Part 121, the "managers" often denigrated are the top level executive, not middle or line management. And when the pilots start delivering a long history of failure then management may indeed devote some forum time to our collective failings.

There is some angst at junior "managers" leapfrogging our long-held staff travel upload status. This despite the company insisting that we occupy a position analogous to a senior company officer. It is a violation of a previously understood compact between the pilots and the company.

Most of us lack the schooling and foresight to chase an executive position, but our hindsight is pretty good. Our sense of outrage at recent events and continuing executive level denial of what is obvious is shared with commentators world-wide, including The New York Times and Flight Global.

Ken Borough: thanks for that Fox News insight. Once again: everything was on the table three years ago but Joyce elected to lockout the workforce in a bid to get Fair Work to vacate the award. That failed, and the arbitrator kept almost all of the award provisions in place. But somehow that's our fault? Keep banging your emoticon head against the wall.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 08:33
  #5083 (permalink)  
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Australopithecus or anyone else in the know,

What did AIPA offer the company three years ago?
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 09:04
  #5084 (permalink)  
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Part 121.

True, Executive's do not denigrate their Pilots on a private forum.

They chose to do so in a public forum.

"Pilots living in cloud cuckoo land"

"kamikaze pilots"

"Pilots wanting facials & massages before flight"

"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"

These public outbursts gave reason for pilots to hold Executives responsible for their comments.

Pilots also hold these same executives responsible for the current financial state of the airline.

After all. AJ did declare the international business was in "terminal decline"

Well, blow me down. Because the same Long Haul pilots Agreement still exists & although new fuel efficient aircraft have failed to materialise. Management are now seeing the " greenshoots" of a recovery.

The list is long Part 121.

Should I mention, take a pay freeze now & we promise to negotiate a deal on new aircraft types. Jetstar will never be bigger than 12 aircraft. Or all FO's will be QF Captains within X years.

They have lost the trust of their crew.

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Old 24th Sep 2014, 09:23
  #5085 (permalink)  
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The AIPA president offered the company a LH pay freeze prior to the 2011 lockout.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 11:16
  #5086 (permalink)  
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Priceless AJ comment on ABC TV 'Mad as Hell'.

'But Qantas needs all the help it can get. You've all heard Alan Joyce say he's not going anywhere - that means the planes aren't going anywhere either!'

Too good not to share......
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 11:52
  #5087 (permalink)  
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Why would he go anywhere he is not being called to account by anyone over anything, so may as well keep taking the bucks until the gig is over and then he is set for life providing he avoids the regulators which is highly likely.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 12:18
  #5088 (permalink)  
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why the need to continually denigrate managers?
QF has been manipulated by the leprechaun into an "us and them" culture, divide and conquer if you will. Even as the airline crumbles around them there are more than a few on both sides that are maintaining a professional deportment, living in hope for a turnaround.

QF should have continued being a success story as it had many things going in its favour, but the stupid ones at the helm appeared to have steered a very good ship onto the rocks.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 13:16
  #5089 (permalink)  
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Part 121.

To add to what Master Caution supplied:

"Engineers are just glorified car mechanics"

"Modern aircraft need less maintenance" So... where are mainlines modern aircraft? You know, the ones that need less maintenance? Would that be the A330s and 737-800s, the oldest of which are now over 12 years old? If modern aircraft need less maintenance, why have I received about a dozen calls for overtime in the last few weeks? Why is it that 65 LAMEs who were just a few weeks ago "exiting the business" now being reinstated? Could it have something to do with the possibility that someone quite senior in Engineering management has perhaps "miscalculated"? That's a technical term for "****** up".

Over the years I have seen many managers come and go. Many have tried hard, done a good job, maintained their personal integrity, and have earned my respect by doing their best within the confines of a toxic and nepotistic culture governed by an archaic managerial mindset that belongs in the 19th century. The culture eventually wears them down and they move on to greener pastures. To lose one good leader is an accident: to lose many is incompetence. They are not recognised and they are not groomed. When these good people walk, it is a grievous loss to the company. Sadly I have also seen over the years a disproportionate number who have been useless, clock-punching snakes that I wouldn't trust to manage a pissup in a brewery. Sadly, the culture seems to select and prefer these creatures.

Last edited by Nassensteins Monster; 24th Sep 2014 at 13:54.
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Old 24th Sep 2014, 16:33
  #5090 (permalink)  
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It always bothered me when people complained about the conditions/pay that they signed up for. Likewise, I don't understand why same types want to denigrate those earning more than they. You can't ask someone to sell their house and get a smaller car - they signed up to that!!
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 00:40
  #5091 (permalink)  
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The Short Haul pilots will in all probability vote the EA offer down when it comes to the vote soon. It's not the money, it's the lack of respect. The total denigration of a reasonable career path and blatant industrial wedging using Jetconnect and Cobham. When you look back over the years and the lies of pacification it's obvious that the future will repeat the past. If both EAs are in negotiation concurrently it will ruffle the feathers of Joyce et al. The last thing they will want for his swan song term is another bout of turmoil and share price volatility.
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Old 25th Sep 2014, 09:12
  #5092 (permalink)  
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Check out the Air France pilots strike, there is a similarity with what is happening to Qantas.
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 12:54
  #5093 (permalink)  
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"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
Is this the actual facts? or is this BS. If it is BS why is there not some legal action taken???
Or in fact, is this the facts???
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Old 26th Sep 2014, 13:06
  #5094 (permalink)  
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Arnold E

This was despite a $2m bonus awarded at last year's annual general meeting on the morning before he historically grounded the airline. "What Qantas pays me as CEO is actually very conservative compared with other ASX 100 companies, and if you ranked salaries by hours worked I'm not even the highest paid person in Qantas because the pilots and senior captains get paid a lot more," Mr Joyce said.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 00:23
  #5095 (permalink)  
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From The Australian article -

"It was a valuable lesson and it taught me this: If you know you've f . . ked up, admit it immediately, then take fast action to fix it."
Seems that valuable lessons are soon forgotten! Unless of course, he doesn't feel he has "f..Ked up" anything since that time, back in 2003.
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Old 27th Sep 2014, 01:12
  #5096 (permalink)  
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"pilots earning a higher hourly rate than the a CEO"
Is this the actual facts? or is this BS. If it is BS why is there not some legal action taken???
Or in fact, is this the facts???
Unlike certain elements of the media, which are grateful for any opportunity to pass on the great man's utterances without actually checking the veracity thereof, I did the maths once and found that it's completely true, provided Alan's working about 46 hours a day, 7 days a week. That's using our senior captain's actual hours on duty, not 'credit hours' or hours away from home 'at work'.

Otherwise, it might be a tiny bit of a fib. But legal action? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't sue a CEO just for spouting BS - more's the pity.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 08:52
  #5097 (permalink)  
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But legal action? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't sue a CEO just for spouting BS
Just as well, there'd be a shortage of lawyers.
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Old 28th Sep 2014, 13:00
  #5098 (permalink)  
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But legal action? I'm not a lawyer, but I'm pretty sure you can't sue a CEO just for spouting BS
I'm no lawyer either - but I actually think there are a couple of options. Firstly, in the age of continuous disclosure, the CEO breaks a lot of ASIC laws if they give misleading information to the public which could materially affect the share price. No action available to staff unless there is a class action from shareholders.

The interesting one is the Trade Practices Act - it could be argued that the CEO, in publicly uttering rubbish, is in breach of the act in the form of deceptive and misleading conduct. It's a reasonably easy case to win and you don't need to be a customer or anything - just an aggrieved party.
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Old 1st Oct 2014, 16:28
  #5099 (permalink)  
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No spare seats on QF into/outa DXB for the past two weeks. Would be hard for even QF management to say your not printing money at the moment.

The Don
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Old 3rd Oct 2014, 07:26
  #5100 (permalink)  
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Meanwhile, Ms Hrdlicka said the launch of the much-hyped Boeing 787 Dreamliner on international routes had been a boon for the airline.

She said the Dreamliner was cheaper to run and faster than other aircraft, and popular with passengers.

"It really is game changing, it has changed the face of aviation for us in a dramatic way because the economics are so much better, and coupled with that, it's got a much better environment inside the aircraft for every one of our customers," she said.

Quote from the CEO of jetstar one of the most influential women in Australia. FFS , no wonder we are in such deep poo. Just imagine what they would have done for mainline where the yields are so much better and the fuel bill so much higher.
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