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MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

MERGED: Alan's still not happy......

Old 11th Jun 2014, 21:58
  #4421 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 306
Eureka! The answer to the A380 economics question just came to me, in the shower. [Don't try to visualize that, it's not pretty]

It's not premium pax that save the day for the A380 on the Dallas route. The A380 covers it's higher costs by carrying an extra 100 or so 'tourist class' pax TO Dallas. It just can't bring them back.

So girls, be nice to those folks down the back on the way to DFW. They're paying somebody's bonus.

I even nutted out a little country song. It was a long shower:

'One Way Ticket To Dallas' - by Captain Gidday.
"We can take you any day to Dallas,
But you'll have to come back
Through LAX"

Last edited by Captain Gidday; 12th Jun 2014 at 02:59.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 05:50
  #4422 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 264
Could be a positive or a negative for Jetstar HK if you read between the lines.

Warnings as China changes tune on Hong Kong
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 06:12
  #4423 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 664
How could you interpret that as potentialy positive for any foreign venture in. Hong Kong? That reads more like an explicit warning. Jetstar HK would be exactly the kind of thing the Chinese would close the door on. Which comes as a surprise to no one with more brains than bluster.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 06:14
  #4424 (permalink)  
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 06:50
  #4425 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Posts: 264
Australopithecus, remember that the first partner in Jetatar HK was a Chinese company, and a very well connected one at that.

The application was seemingly objected by a HK based company, and another HK company was introduced as a shareholder to try and smooth things, but this does not appear to have worked to date.

This is as much HK slapping China in the face as it is Australia
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 08:16
  #4426 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 10
Posts: 1,057
It all sounded so positive back March 2012, just taking a bit longer than first thought, going by this rather optimistic press release. Hindsight is a wonderful thing...

Jetstar Hong Kong will combine the partnersí local
knowledge, networks and successful low
cost carrier model to service short haul routes in
Asia, including Greater China, Japan, South
Korea and South East Asia. It will be the first low
fares airline based in Hong Kong.

Subject to regulatory approval Jetstar Hong Kong
se
rvices will start in 2013 with a fleet of
three Airbus A320s, growing to 18 A320s by 2015.
Jetstar Hong Kong is underpinned by a total maximum
capitalisation of up to US$198 million.

The shareholding percentage in Jetstar Hong Kong
wi
ll be equally held by China Eastern
Airlines and Qantas Group, which will be equal part
ners in the Joint Venture. The maximum
exposure for each partner is US$99 million over a
t
hree year period.

http://www.asx.com.au/asxpdf/2012032...gblzv2ryz8.pdf
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 08:25
  #4427 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea, Queensland, Australia
Posts: 664
My take is that the funds invested by Qantas were more than the mooted 99 million each. There was no disclosure from the Chinese partners about their funding sources, for example. I have heard it whispered that Qantas issued non-recourse loans to their Chinese partners to fund their share.

This latest revelation about China Southern loaning more cash to JQ HK leads me to cynically expect that that debt will be the senior secured debt. If Qantas escapes only losing its initial cash injection I will be amaaaaaaaazed.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 09:31
  #4428 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Al's Diner
Age: 59
Posts: 87
My take is that the funds invested by Qantas were more than the mooted 99 million each. There was no disclosure from the Chinese partners about their funding sources, for example. I have heard it whispered that Qantas issued non-recourse loans to their Chinese partners to fund their share.
If you look at the half yearly report, QF added 7 unencumbered A320's to the books. Just so happens that at the time there were 7 Jetstar HK A320's sitting outside the Airbus factory.

No doubt it was not these actual A320's, after all it's a three way partnership, but perhaps a "different" set of 7 were fully paid for by QF. Problem solved!
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 15:06
  #4429 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: London-Thailand-Australia
Age: 10
Posts: 1,057
Whilst we are figuring out the birthing difficulties with J* Hong Kong, Twitter has gone off regarding mum's birthplace all those years ago.. was it in Winton or Longreach? Away we go now..

#Awkward. Qantas and Virgin Australia in odd Twitter encounter

LADIES and gentlemen, itís time to buckle up and prepare for a mile-high Twitter fight.
The claws are well and truly out between Qantas and Virgin Australia after the rivals did the unthinkable on Tuesday night; they actually acknowledged each other's presence on Twitter.


#Awkward. Qantas and Virgin Australia in odd Twitter encounter | News.com.au

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Old 12th Jun 2014, 15:12
  #4430 (permalink)  
 
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Location: melbourne
Posts: 162
All VA has to do now is file a flight plan Charleville to Cloncurry and its back to Shannon with you AJ LOL
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 20:58
  #4431 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,289
Australopithicus:

My take is that the funds invested by Qantas were more than the mooted 99 million each. There was no disclosure from the Chinese partners about their funding sources, for example. I have heard it whispered that Qantas issued non-recourse loans to their Chinese partners to fund their share.

This latest revelation about China Southern loaning more cash to JQ HK leads me to cynically expect that that debt will be the senior secured debt. If Qantas escapes only losing its initial cash injection I will be amaaaaaaaazed.
Indeed, senior secured debt. China Southern is buying Jetstar HK assets for pennies in the dollar. Make no mistake, Qantas will shortly have to write off its entire investment in Asia.

What really annoys me is the amount of wasted Board and management time and energy on a project that anyone with any experience of Asian trade knew was always a fools errand.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 21:46
  #4432 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Inside their OODA loop
Posts: 242
I believe you are correct Sunfish, however, they will never let a crisis go to waste. Before the write-off, the financial high wire "crisis" act will be used to as a battering ram against the employees, as they have already begun to do.

Joyce will fall on his sword when it is announced, blame the previous management's flawed strategy & retire into the sunset to count his mere millions.
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Old 12th Jun 2014, 21:56
  #4433 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 306
I refuse to do Twatter or Bookface, so I can't/won't follow the story as it develops. But the documents that brought Qantas into existence were signed in the Gresham Hotel, Brisbane, on the 16th November 1920. So Brisbane has the most logical claim to be the birthplace of Qantas.

Sad that the modern Qantas media team don't know their own company's history, but not surprising.

Methinks you'd better start a separate thread. This could get ugly.
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Old 13th Jun 2014, 01:47
  #4434 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 308
Let's not get started on the 'birthplace of aviation' claim......
Pretty sure aviation in Australia was 'born' neither in Longreach or Winton....
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Old 13th Jun 2014, 02:10
  #4435 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 130
True. According to Wikipedia's page on Harry Houdini:

Wing Commander Harry Cobby wrote in Aircraft in March 1938 that "the first aeroplane flight in the Southern Hemisphere was made on December 9, 1909 by Mr Colin Defries, a Londoner, at Victoria Park Racecourse, Sydney, in a Wilbur Wright aeroplane". Colin Defries was a trained pilot, having learnt to fly in Cannes, France. By modern standards his flight time was minimal, but in 1909 he had accumulated enough to become an instructor. On his first flight he took off, maintained straight and level flight, albeit briefly, and landed safely. His crash landing on his second flight, when he tried to retrieve his hat which was blown off, demonstrated what a momentary lack of attention could cause while flying a Wright Model A.

It is acknowledged by Australian historians[46] and the Aviation Historical Society of Australia that the definition of flight established by the Gorell Committee on behalf of the Aero Club of Great Britain dictates the acceptance of a flight or its rejection, giving Colin Defries credit as the first to make an aeroplane flight in Australia, and the Southern Hemisphere.

In 1965 aviation journalist Stanley Brogden formed the view that the first powered flight in Australia took place at Bolivar in South Australia; the aircraft was a Bleriot monoplane with Fred Custance as the pilot. The flight took place on March 17, 1910. The next day when Houdini took to the air, the Herald newspaper reported Custance's flight, stating it had lasted 5 minutes 25 seconds at a height of between 12 and 15 feet.
Who knows which claim is true? Either way, it doesn't seem like it was anywhere in the Sunshine State.
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Old 13th Jun 2014, 13:00
  #4436 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: australia
Age: 54
Posts: 425
"Your wrong about the A380 of course, but as you are losing some of your flying I see you have adopted the normal course of action of QF mainline FAs in slagging off and lying about anything that doesnt meet your self interest.

Reminds me of the lies about the BKK FA basing (when it was running) and the ongoing slander you and your boiler mates indulge in with respect to the London Base Cabin Crew."

You are right, we are losing the flying to DFW as it will be 380 flying. There are 12 380's. There are no new additions of the 380 to the fleet so where are the 380's coming from, maybe HKG flying and I guess these flights will now be non A380 planes. Guess who will be crewing them.
Mohican, you seem to be very angry with cabin crew. Hope it wasn't that knock back from the Sydney hostie that is causing your animosity.
I said that the 380 is a better plane 'from' DFW. It has first class plus it carries more j/c and w/c so can earn bucket loads more $$$ per seat. The 747 cannot operate DFW BNE with full economy load, usually 50 seats blocked out.
Does anyone out there actually know if the 380 is weight restricted as well?
Mohican, get over it!
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Old 14th Jun 2014, 03:41
  #4437 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Land of egos
Posts: 38
Will be interesting to see if the coming upheaval in Iraq and by association the Middle East starts to impact further on QF loads via Dubai....
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Old 14th Jun 2014, 09:26
  #4438 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 69
Posts: 1,320
Will be interesting to see if the coming upheaval in Iraq and by association the Middle East starts to impact further on QF loads via Dubai....
Dont know about you, but I wouldn't fly to any Muslim country, even for transit.
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Old 14th Jun 2014, 09:33
  #4439 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: The Universe
Age: 53
Posts: 263
Dont know about you, but I wouldn't fly to any Muslim country, even for transit.
Ah, heartwarming to be reminded that Xenophobia is alive and well in our bogan nation.
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Old 14th Jun 2014, 09:36
  #4440 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 69
Posts: 1,320
Ah, heartwarming to be reminded that Xenophobia is alive and well in our bogan nation.
You fly there if you want, but I wont, You got a problem with that?
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