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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

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Truss: Aviation Safety Regulation Review

Old 17th Jun 2014, 22:04
  #841 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Australia
Age: 49
Posts: 547
Kharon, with 267? Submissions there must be patterns evident. Surely can't be a coincidence and all fake from ios.

A visit from FAA or icao could be the straw that breaks camels back.

But yeah, they may just pull off another magic trick and fool the minister.

It is like the emperors new clothes though.
halfmanhalfbiscuit is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2014, 00:42
  #842 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,206
Infringement notices...

While CAsA may pat itself on the back with IF/PNs count,one has to ask what they were all for and the relevance to any "safety case"...if there was one.??

For example... Phil The Dill (LIster of Barrier infamy) got CAsA $550 from a PPL for adding hydraulic fluid to his brake reserviour. Perp failed to enter that action on the MR...because now in Sched 8 there is a new footnote statement.. that an entry be made in the MR .."if appropriate".
So Phil decides on the appropriateness of an MR entry or otherwise.
And the result is one seriously pissed off PPL and the benefit to the "safety case" is, as usual ZERO. Some fn statistic! Bet there are similar others.

This is the method of totalitarianism...one never knows how the "rules" will play out. Nothing is fixed.

Cooperative approach by CAsA? NO. Safety benefit? NO
But it does allow tossers to exercise the small penile power muscle and pretend they are saving Australia from falling aeroplanes and ensuring the safety of air navigation.

Last edited by IBobi; 30th Jun 2014 at 21:38. Reason: Admin edit -- no threats
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 01:15
  #843 (permalink)  
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,394
What is safer? 10,000 penalty notices issued or Zero penalty notices issued?

accidents / incidents per thousand hours is the only true measure.

as for cost benefit analysis, there is plenty of published methodology for that.

what for example, is the point of me fitting ADS-B? I thought about a GTN650 as a certified nav source with a Garmin 330 transponder. AhHa! I thought, little Sunfish will be plainly visible to all and sundry and ATC will smooth my path for me on occasion.

Then I realised that all I was doing was fitting an automatic infringement generator with zero safety benefit to me personally. A simple ADSB feed to CASA from Airservices and CASA is alerted my flying and can track my every move in real, or pseudo real, time.

And I still don't see why a GA VFR aircraft needs a certified ($8000) GPS when we are not supposed to be anywhere near big jets, and in any case the ADSB message has a quality of fix field that can be set to a lesser value then certified GPS anyway.

Then of course there is the barbed hook that once its fitted, it must be used and if it fails you have only three days grace to fix it.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 01:31
  #844 (permalink)  
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Oh Yuk......how gross.

It appears the Spin boiler is up and running – just in time for the budget to be spent. Use it or loose it. If you can stomach it, here the latest offering from - Robert Virtue - of the ABC.

Remember the old game of Simon says – well, here's what Peter says. Aw, stone the bloody crows – fetch the bucket.

Impending rule changes for pilots has prompted the nation's aviation authority to go on an education tour through the NSW central west.

Flying seems to be one of those things that you either love or hate.

For the haters, you're likely to be riddled with stress about soaring up into the clouds, and probably won't enter into a career as a pilot.

For the lovers, there's something almost-therapeutic about the rattle and rumble of a plane tracking along a runway and the lurch as you lift-off the ground.

Some love it so much they enter into a career in aviation, perhaps as a steward, or even a pilot.

The NSW central west is littered with small airports and aerodromes that are used to varying degrees- from commercial carriers offering flights to the city, to farmers soaring over their paddocks.

"Pilots in the central west have got pretty good flying conditions. Particularly at the smaller aerodromes, they've got plenty of room to do their flying," says spokesman for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), Peter Gibson.

"They've always got questions about procedures; how to follow the rules successfully; how to get the best training and keep up to date."

A suite of new rules for pilots is coming into force in September, focussing on licensing.
CASA is holding training workshops in Parkes and Cowra this week for pilots looking to get up to scratch with the rules.

"It's a good time to sit down with local pilots and talk to them about what the rule changes might mean for their flying, and importantly, answer their questions and get any feedback," says Peter.

"It's important all current pilots in regional areas understand these changes."

Over recent months, a light plane crashed at Narrabri; while a pilot was killed when his ultra-light aircraft crashed near Ivanhoe in May.

"We're always looking at the aviation safety system and aviation safety trends, and looking for ways to make improvements," says Peter.

"One of the ways you can make improvements is to bring in new safety rules; [and] we'll certainly be doing things to improve safety, but it's an ongoing process.

"Peter says flying into regional airports and aerodromes can be particularly dangerous for pilots.

"There aren't air traffic control towers at all the regional aerodromes, so pilots have got to manage that themselves.

"They've got to talk to other aircraft and be very aware of when scheduled airline services are coming in, and work with them to make sure there are no conflicts."

CASA offers a range of other training modules for local pilots to complete to improve their knowledge.

"We've got a number of online tools where pilots can go in, do exercises, and get information that will help improve the safety of their flying," says Peter.

"That's a great thing to be doing all the time, so that you're continuously updating and improving your safety knowledge."

For more details on the workshops being held in Parkes and Cowra, visit the CASA website.
6 Peter says – is this Muppet paid by the word, where in all the hells is his self respect. (your pick of Muppet). Urrghh - retch.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 04:14
  #845 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jun 2011
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Peter says:
"Pilots in the central west have got pretty good flying conditions. Particularly at the smaller aerodromes, they've got plenty of room to do their flying," says spokesman for the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA), Peter Gibson.
Really? Well there you go! Must be true if 'Peter says'! 004 says 'Peter is a '
Lucky pilots in the central west. Don't think the pilots in Brisbane South feel the same way about approaching Archerfield.

Did somebody say Muppets? This one is close to Peter in likeness:
004wercras is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2014, 06:21
  #846 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: australia
Posts: 1,206
re P Gobsome...

A reverse quote for the Spin Doctor...
..."some people hate aviation so much the make a career out of telling lies and bullshitting about it.'

PG is so full of it, he should turn himself into the nearest sewerage farm for treatment.

and we pay for these people..!!??

Aah do love Peters Puerile Postulations. Bucket please.!
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 08:15
  #847 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,383
Jeez Sarksi,
can you hold off the colour coded posts, freaking me out!!
Read down then suddenly Oh Shite..."I'M GOING BLIND....BLIND I TELL YOU"
Missus says "what's wrong sweetheart??"....."That paragraph it's RED, for god sakes..and that's BLUE...I'll never fly again!!"

"For goodness sake get a grip they are RED and BLUE!!"...Oh really?? PHEW!! my whole life passed before my eye's there for a second.
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Old 18th Jun 2014, 08:46
  #848 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
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The NSW central west is littered with small airports....
littered? littered!!!!

you arrogant fckuwit gibson.
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Old 19th Jun 2014, 02:37
  #849 (permalink)  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Styx Houseboat Park.
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Submissions to the WLR.

Well, I'm done – read the lot; even a couple of the 'confidential' ones (Cheers P7, wish you'd publish the first part). The things that stand out, to me at least are (a) the diverse paths the submitters took to arrive at the same conclusion; and. (b) how the different disciplines all arrived at pretty much the same 'bottom line'.

The legal fraternity, naturally enough, approached from where the holes in the legal cheese were, how the flaws in the regulations and how CASA chose to act within that frame work created their 'issues'. The engineers, same but from an engineering perspective; operations same; medical same; pilots same; insurers same. It's interesting to see the various 'start points', follow it through the 'logic' part and arrive at the tailor made conclusions and proposed 'solutions'. There was some very fine work done at a very credible level; hate to have to pick a winner.

But the inescapable conclusion, when you chart it out is: Legal – stuffed: Engineering – stuffed: Insurance – stuffed: Operations – stuffed: Flight training – stuffed: Medical – stuffed. Gliding – almost stuffed: Fun flying – bloody near stuffed. etc. etc

In every discipline, across the board, experts in 'their' fields through diverse paths, all arrived at the same conclusion; there is not one area where things are good, not even the bloody administrative hum-drum of issuing licences (bring in the RTA). There is a need for immediate, sweeping reform, now. It's a complete buggers muddle, and CASA in denial are 'business as usual. How fast can we get these reforms in?, better add the Senators suggestions as well, for good measure.

Toot toot...

Last edited by Kharon; 19th Jun 2014 at 02:51.
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Old 19th Jun 2014, 03:13
  #850 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Miniscule embargo Fort Fumble now!

Yep "K" same conclusion here... Just caught the tail-end of a Phil (the other Phil) interview on the wireless, unfortunately I'm (as yet) unable to track down a copy but I did find this article from the ABC...
Calls for new aviation rules to be deferred as fallout from major review continues
By Robert Virtue (with Melanie Pearce)

Pilots have called for the introduction of new safety regulations to be deferred, as the fallout from a review into air safety is finalised.

A major agricultural aviation association says the introduction of new regulations for the aviation industry should be deferred until the outcomes of a review into air safety are finalised.

The new regulations for the industry are due to be implemented in September, and among other things, focus on pilot licensing.

In November last year, the Federal Government ordered the Aviation Safety Regulation Review (ASRR), with a 25-member panel, chaired by David Forsyth, to look into the regulation of the aviation industry.

A total of 37 recommendations came from the review, many of which proposed a significant overhaul to the regulatory authority, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA).

The ASRR report said that, "the current relationship between industry and the regulator is cause for concern." As such, its recommendations state that CASA:

- "Changes its regulatory philosophy and, together with industry, builds an effective collaborative relationship on a foundation of mutual understanding and respect."

- "Publishes and demonstrates the philosophy of 'just culture' whereby individuals involved in a reportable event are not punished for actions, omissions or decisions taken by them that are commensurate with their experience and training. However, actions of gross negligence... should not be tolerated"

- "CASA's Board exercises full governance control... the next Director of Aviation Safety has leadership and management experience and capabilities in cultural change of large organisations."

The Chief Executive Officer of the Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia, Phil Hurst, said with the release of the ASRR findings this month, the new regulations for the industry should be deferred.

"CASA is currently under a major review. A series of recommendations have been made, and we think it'd be prudent now to defer again (because these regulations have already been put back once) these regulations, until such time as the future of CASA becomes clearer," he said.

Later this week, air transport officials and industry bodies are meeting in Sydney to discuss the new safety regulations at the Aviation Associations Forum.

Mr Hurst said there are some concerns about the regulations, with one particular set of rules governing pilot licensing being 1,500 pages long.
"It's quite a detailed package. Industry has been expressing concerns for some time about particular aspects of it. We're very concerned that... CASA isn't ready to transition.

"In our particular case in aerial application, we're quite concerned about the interaction between the new aerial application rating and endorsement, and the fire fighting endorsement.

"Make no mistake, the industry is right behind the majority of the recommendations that have already been made; we're just now in the process of formalising that... We want to make sure that it's a seamless transition and we just don't think we're there yet."

This week CASA has held information workshops for pilots in Parkes and Cowra.

Mr Hurst said despite pilot's concerns about the timing of the new rules being implemented, due to the unclear fate of CASA and how the regulations would be implemented, his organisation supports pilots getting educated on the laws.

"One of the things we've learnt over the years is that anytime you have an opportunity to talk about aviation safety is a worthwhile exercise," he said.
"The content to some degree is slightly less important than the fact that you are actually talking about [and focussing on] safety; so, we will still recommend to our members that it's a useful exercise to go along and listen to what CASA has to say, and to focus on safety as we always try to do."

Mr Hurst said he hopes the relationship between industry and regulator improves as a result of the ASRR recommendations.

"A lot of the [new] regulations are not guidance for people trying to do the right thing; they are actually penalty provisions, so that if you are caught-out inadvertently doing the wrong thing, then you are treated as if it was an offence that you meant to commit.

"It does make it very difficult in an aviation safety environment to ensure that the regulations encourage safe behaviour, and encourage a safe culture.

"That's a critical issue for us; we want a safe culture with plain-English regulations."

Phil Hurst spoke to ABC News journalist, Melanie Pearce.
Hear, hear Phil...

Dear Miniscule get on with it mate...

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Old 19th Jun 2014, 07:11
  #851 (permalink)  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Go west young man
Posts: 1,732
Red's comic relief thread drift.

Warning: Short post with off-track PNR coming up! (TB this is in red mate..)

Things must be tough in M&M land - is the budget so tight that they must recycle titles for press releases - and Ministerial speeches... (from today's Govt media releases):
Infrastructure and Regional Development

Ministerial Statement: The Australian Government's Aviation Safety Regulation Review

[Indistinct] welcome, Stephen(*) and ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Canberra on a foggy morning—very foggy morning. It's a Budget aimed at restructuring our economy. In the infrastructure space, we are committed to that...
I thought....this is good and maybe the Miniscule has heeded the call for action.. However then I clicked on the link here...and was directed to some spiel from the Miniscule to a International CEO Forum at the Hyatt yesterday.. Hmm...guess the $60 million efficiencies cutbacks across the Dept is already starting to come into effect?? Onya Red shoulder to the wheel and all that!

ps Thank's Red for the comic relief..
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 20:41
  #852 (permalink)  
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Hurst - "Make no mistake, the industry is right behind the majority of the recommendations that have already been made; we're just now in the process of formalising that... We want to make sure that it's a seamless transition and we just don't think we're there yet."
Nicely understated, with CASA caught somewhere between outright denial and complete disarray. Shedders melting, trenches being dug, positions secured and a general air of relief that the Senate inquiry was gazumped. But was it ? Can the Sleepy, hollow men be sure that the WLR won't lead to a serious look at just what they've been up to the last few years. I'd bet a beer industry will be ready a long way ahead of the regulator – a country mile ahead.

Good shout – brakes on now, new board, new DAS, new policy; reassess, brakes off - and put the last five bloody awful years as far behind as possible. How many sleeps now ?– can't be many.....
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Old 21st Jun 2014, 21:56
  #853 (permalink)  
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,394
Message Minister: without a thriving GA sector, the tyranny of distance will stop your northern developments in their tracks.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 01:09
  #854 (permalink)  
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Came across the following bit of trivia today. After I'd stopped laughing I thought wow this parallels CAsA, so with a tiny bit of modification, and the Mods indulgence (You'll see the relevance at the end) Here it is..Sundays Trivia.

Railroad tracks.

The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.

Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England , and English expatriates designed the US railroads.

Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.

Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.

Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England , because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.

So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England ) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since.

And the ruts in the roads?

Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome , they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot.

Bureaucracies live forever!!!.

But the next time you are handed a specification/procedure/process by CAsA and wonder 'What horse's ass came up with this? , you may be exactly right!!

Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)

Now, the twist to the story:

When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah.

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.

So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what was arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass.

And you thought being a horse's ass wasn't important?

Ancient horse's asses control almost everything...

And don’t that sound like CAsA today!!!

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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 01:41
  #855 (permalink)  
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Choccy Frog TB.

Best post on thread, fully supporting the benefits from 2000 years of pony pooh.
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 04:38
  #856 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
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I watched julie bishop giving the press club speech on her foreign affairs portfolio.
an amazing performance by a minister actively running a portfolio.

then I thought of Warren Truss. by comparison he seems to be so senile.
I would bet that the bureaucrats in CAsA have him sized up as impotent.
the working committees working on the new rules seem to be steaming along with pace unaltered.

just how do we stop all this pony poo?
dubbleyew eight is offline  
Old 22nd Jun 2014, 07:28
  #857 (permalink)  
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Posts: 97
Thats brilliant TB I've not seen that before. So I suppose the Casa measurement of two horses asses is a "safety"?
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Old 22nd Jun 2014, 20:18
  #858 (permalink)  
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The Australian & International Pilots Association has written directly to Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Infrastructure and Regional Development Warren Truss over CASA’s handling of the Debate over colour vision deficiency CVD affected pilots.
Good to see; the AIPA have weighed into the debate and seem to think the CVD issue important enough to send a letter directly to Minister Truss; - Phelan – Proaviation – has published a short article which gives the gist of that important letter. We should note the AIPA has now provided the CVD debate, Senate and Forsyth with valuable, balanced, intelligent, positive views on matters aeronautical. AIPA should be congratulated on and complimented for their efforts on behalf of their members and industry. Well done...

I can understand the ministers reluctance to act on the broader topics related to the aviation industry; due process, other pressing matters and the detailed nature of the information provided by Senate and Forsyth, alongside a need to have an industry response, by months end, inevitably delay immediate action.

The minister has, in the past displayed a quiet, doughty resolve when confronted with the administrative embuggerance CASA generate. The Truss management of one case in particular, whilst out of office was an excellent example of where his 'heart' lay...

But, the CVD matter 'paperwork' is piling up; the message to industry his response on the CVD matter conveys will be definative; and may well set the tone of his reform programme. We are about to commit about AUD $1,000,000 (ish) to the AAT hearing; to achieve little except potentially damage the lives of many, hard working, skilled, qualified Australian pilots.

The brake pedal Minister, is in the middle (manual) or the big one on the left (automatic), or the wiggly bit at the top of the rudder pedals (aircraft). No matter your preference; they all work, just fine.....

Tick tock. (just a bit)

Last edited by Kharon; 22nd Jun 2014 at 20:58.
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Old 23rd Jun 2014, 03:27
  #859 (permalink)  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: have I forgotten or am I lost?
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Posts: 1,129
are you sure Truss isn't going a little senile?

I used to give warren a lot of regard because he was a sensible intelligent person.
but lately I'm wondering whether he hasn't slipped a little.
he is increasingly looking like the least capable minister in the current government.
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Old 23rd Jun 2014, 09:58
  #860 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,394
Just an aside.

Some months ago I was looking for an airport or airstrip to place my aircraft should I eventually finish it. I visited a number of places one day, dressed reasonably casually, in my new car and carrying what notes I had researched in a folder.

In each of these places i just waltzed in looking for the boss or someone in authority, etc. to talk about hangars.

I came across about half a dozen people here and there working on their aircraft or just spending the time of day gas bagging.

I found it strange that in each case I was initially viewed with suspicion and fear - I could see it in peoples faces, starting with the guy changing a tire on a Jabiru.

I have just understood why that occurred - they were afraid - afraid I was from CASA.
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