EK A380 Taxi Mishap - YBBN 14/10/13
Originally Posted by Glofish
And being in the famous down under region, we might consider a little fewer and shorter briefings, as to keep the pilots capable to concentrate to what happens in the real world, right now and outside.
Leave the superfluous talking to Ted Cruze .....
Leave the superfluous talking to Ted Cruze .....
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Long, complicated, boring briefings.
In spite of all the gear and technology available to the crews these days, there is a tendency to loose sight of the basics. It's getting overly complicated and the move away from the basics, is becoming more apparent.. We as humans can only take so much in for recall, at a given time. As queried T/o and Dep briefings shouldn't be done when the aircraft is taxing. Amendments/changes, maybe with caution. Should be a 2/3 crew full time job with as many "eyes out the window2 as possible. This of course is stating the obvious.
The is a European aircraft manufacture, who have such an avionics fit for to their aircraft, it requires a whole new type rating to operate it. Where is the simplicity in that? EASY I think they call it.
When I started on heavies, I sometimes flew with an ex WW2 pathfinder. The t/o brief, when he responded was to point his finger up, accompanied by the confirmation of the MSA. Landing brief was finger pointed down, with the confirmation of the MSA. Worked for us.
Gimme a big K.I.S.
In spite of all the gear and technology available to the crews these days, there is a tendency to loose sight of the basics. It's getting overly complicated and the move away from the basics, is becoming more apparent.. We as humans can only take so much in for recall, at a given time. As queried T/o and Dep briefings shouldn't be done when the aircraft is taxing. Amendments/changes, maybe with caution. Should be a 2/3 crew full time job with as many "eyes out the window2 as possible. This of course is stating the obvious.
The is a European aircraft manufacture, who have such an avionics fit for to their aircraft, it requires a whole new type rating to operate it. Where is the simplicity in that? EASY I think they call it.
When I started on heavies, I sometimes flew with an ex WW2 pathfinder. The t/o brief, when he responded was to point his finger up, accompanied by the confirmation of the MSA. Landing brief was finger pointed down, with the confirmation of the MSA. Worked for us.
Gimme a big K.I.S.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 18th Oct 2013 at 08:52.
Bottums Up
Wondered why it sat there for over one hour on the flight radar!!!!!
His recounting of the story was so amusing its sad that he's not contributed to this thread.
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What are you doing briefings on taxi for?
- runway change
- T/O clearance change / initial issue or reissue
- change of weather conditions
- take-off reviews and similar re-re-re-re-doing of already done
to understand the overkill of babbling, finger exercises during taxi
Hence this hint of how such incidents can be reduced ...
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You might read the OMA and FCOM of a lot of mentioned operators in reference of
- runway change
- T/O clearance change / initial issue or reissue
- change of weather conditions
- take-off reviews and similar re-re-re-re-doing of already done
- runway change
- T/O clearance change / initial issue or reissue
- change of weather conditions
- take-off reviews and similar re-re-re-re-doing of already done
Last edited by Stalins ugly Brother; 19th Oct 2013 at 03:51.
In spite of all the gear and technology available to the crews these days, there is a tendency to loose sight of the basics. It's getting overly complicated and the move away from the basics, is becoming more apparent..
painted with the sign MAX TOW 56KG (or something fairly similar)
Maybe they misread it?
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True. However, there's been a few of these incidents so maybe something could be improved.
There's a whole winter wonderland of yellow mag signs at that intersection and when someone's unfamiliar with the intersection and/or distracted, maybe they all just turn into a blur.
There's a whole winter wonderland of yellow mag signs at that intersection and when someone's unfamiliar with the intersection and/or distracted, maybe they all just turn into a blur.
'Nev' couldn't have said that better myself! Companies don't want pilots they want puppets whom jump when told to, having a pilot 'think' outside the square in other words being an actual pilot is something that has no place in modern day company Ops!
Having a think about the taxi instructions to said Rwy 19 at Brissy if I recall such instructions are for Eg clear to taxi via C4, B & A1 holding point (or words to that effect) for Rwy 19, trouble is there's a B1 to be negotiated on that route before arriving at the Hld point, perhaps that's a missing trigger for some whom might be distracted & it's easy enuf to do that seeing most of us here are human!
BTW OMA might be a typo, AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual for Boeing) might be more the case here.
Wmk2
Having a think about the taxi instructions to said Rwy 19 at Brissy if I recall such instructions are for Eg clear to taxi via C4, B & A1 holding point (or words to that effect) for Rwy 19, trouble is there's a B1 to be negotiated on that route before arriving at the Hld point, perhaps that's a missing trigger for some whom might be distracted & it's easy enuf to do that seeing most of us here are human!
BTW OMA might be a typo, AOM (Aircraft Operating Manual for Boeing) might be more the case here.
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 19th Oct 2013 at 03:06.
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Sorry for the confusion, I forgot a "-" ........
EK should not be the only airline that operates with OM-A, OM-C, OM-D and newly with OM-E.
I know it's not the sacrosanct Aussie way or designation, but the aircraft in question definitely operated with these publications.
EK should not be the only airline that operates with OM-A, OM-C, OM-D and newly with OM-E.
I know it's not the sacrosanct Aussie way or designation, but the aircraft in question definitely operated with these publications.
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OM-A is EASA (JAA) compliant terminology used by EK to describe on of their particular manuals.
OM-A = Company operational info, i.e. FTL's, policy's relating to flight etc etc etc etc.
OM-A = Company operational info, i.e. FTL's, policy's relating to flight etc etc etc etc.
Last edited by haughtney1; 19th Oct 2013 at 03:26.
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There's already a sign saying "RWY 19" or something to that affect with an arrow pointing down B1 to the the A1 hold point. How many more signs do you want? Just look out the window!
Yet it keeps happening...
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Afterburner1
There's already a sign saying "RWY 19" or something to that affect with an arrow pointing down B1 to the the A1 hold point. How many more signs do you want? Just look out the window!
There's already a sign saying "RWY 19" or something to that affect with an arrow pointing down B1 to the the A1 hold point. How many more signs do you want? Just look out the window!
Had flown with a few ex-EK blokes , hmmmmmm...........
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Certainly nothing new there.Seem to remember a fully loaded 727 ( not quite as dramatic as an A380 admittantly ) doing the same thing not long after the present BNE airport opened way back when.Crew and ATC realised at about the same time I think.Same result. Shutdown on the taxyway and a tug pushback onto the correct one. Very easy to do in BNE even today especially for a crew unfamiliar with the setup and more so at night.Maybe they need a really big signpost !