Brisbane Storm
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Age: 65
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Brisbane Storm
I flew into Brisbane Airport from Singapore last night as a passenger at the height of a storm at around 21:15. It was extremely turbulent and a lot of passengers were distressed. I am not a pilot and I was wondering what options the Captain would have had with regard to holding until the storm had passed over the airport. When we landed there was a delay anyway as the ground staff could not approach the aircraft with the storm warning system active.
Last edited by kiwicave; 17th Sep 2013 at 13:33. Reason: typo
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I flew into Brisbane Airport from Singapore last night as a passenger at the height of a storm at around 21:15
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: home @ 103E
Age: 59
Posts: 81
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
How long a plane can hold depends on the rules that govern the airline's fuel policy. Some have plenty to wait out a storm, others may have to consider other options sooner.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: India
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not a pilot and I was wondering what options the Captain would have had with regard to holding until the storm had passed over the airport. When we landed there was a delay anyway as the ground staff could not approach the aircraft with the storm warning system active.
A) Drop anchor and hold over Breakfast Creek until it all blow over.
B) Pull over into the emergency lane at Lone Pine and wait till it all blow over.
C) Divert to Cairns, step down and enjoy a sip at the Esplanade.
UAE432 from Singapore flew right through the gust front at about 500 feet on final. I'm surprised they decided to continue with the approach as they landed with about 2000m vis and 15 knots tailwind on a very wet runway that hasn't been grooved yet after resurfacing. There were a number of light aircraft that also landed amidst lightning strikes.
I was putting my rubbish bins out at about 9:15-9:30pm that night, it was really bucketing down with plenty of storm activity. I was drenched walking to my street curb. I saw Emirates and heard a few others go over in that time as I live under the approach path to 01, boy I can certainly say I don't envy you. It would have been a very bumpy ride indeed.
And don't say it doesn't happen because it bloody well does.
Overseas operators can disregard the requirements for holding fuel for Thunderstorms. Yep I know it's stupid! But it's in the manual.
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Sydney
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"How long a plane holds depends on THE CAPTAIN's fuel policy."
Not so in many airlines.
A lot of longhaulers roll up in oz skies with a fuel policy that pretty much ignores the captains "policy".
Not so in many airlines.
A lot of longhaulers roll up in oz skies with a fuel policy that pretty much ignores the captains "policy".
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: In the sandy.
Age: 55
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bullcrap. Every airline in the world leaves the fuel decision to the Captain. Their policy may be more restrictive, but if the weather or traffic or whatever require more fuel, the Captain is PIC, not the company.
There are Airlines in some places where you could end up in jail if you crossed the wrong manager ( ie a manager who is affiliated with the party).
I don't think the Captains in some countries with strong dictatorships or militant communist systems would necessarily have much freedom to up their fuel.
I don't think the Captains in some countries with strong dictatorships or militant communist systems would necessarily have much freedom to up their fuel.
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Tie Pay
Posts: 60
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
mister warning
big call of you my friend. I have flown for several airlines in Asia and one in the US where it would be coffee and dunkin donuts for carrying much more gas than dispatch note.
big call of you my friend. I have flown for several airlines in Asia and one in the US where it would be coffee and dunkin donuts for carrying much more gas than dispatch note.
Framer is right.
Every ICAO-compliant operations manual ever written will say that the captain has ultimate authority, and indeed he does. Particularly when the fertilizer hits the N1 rotor. But in certain dictatorships and half-arsed democracies, if some management wallah wants minimum fuel for maximum payload, or has published a schedule that stretches the jet's range, a pilot wishing to over ride this would soon be unemployed at the very least.
Said pilot may get away with one diversion with no more than tea and bickies and maybe a suspension, but, knowing this, he would not want to be the only one on that day who diverted. So, then it's a case of who will break ranks first. Who is the pussy? Whose balls are big enough to defy management?
ICAO does not assist pilots in jail, or run an employment agency.
In the bad old days, ATC would often close an aerodrome. They can still do this, but rarely do. Whether they should is debatable, but it would certainly force those who turn up on our shores with minimum fuel to divert while still able to. Or declare a fuel emergency. If a pattern emerged with a particular operator, they could then be shut out of our skies.
Every ICAO-compliant operations manual ever written will say that the captain has ultimate authority, and indeed he does. Particularly when the fertilizer hits the N1 rotor. But in certain dictatorships and half-arsed democracies, if some management wallah wants minimum fuel for maximum payload, or has published a schedule that stretches the jet's range, a pilot wishing to over ride this would soon be unemployed at the very least.
Said pilot may get away with one diversion with no more than tea and bickies and maybe a suspension, but, knowing this, he would not want to be the only one on that day who diverted. So, then it's a case of who will break ranks first. Who is the pussy? Whose balls are big enough to defy management?
ICAO does not assist pilots in jail, or run an employment agency.
In the bad old days, ATC would often close an aerodrome. They can still do this, but rarely do. Whether they should is debatable, but it would certainly force those who turn up on our shores with minimum fuel to divert while still able to. Or declare a fuel emergency. If a pattern emerged with a particular operator, they could then be shut out of our skies.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dubai
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alternate
Framer is spot on!
EK always carry an alternate. The alternate for YBBN is YBCG! The alternate for YMML is YMAV. Not much holding fuel - especially if there are storms!!
The company policy is to take the OFP minimum fuel. If you take more than that they will hunt you down and gut you like a fish, same same if you run out of fuel.. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Most guys will take the view that it's "the Company's train set"... If you park their plane in Katmandu because you couldn't get in to kalgoorlie and have run out of duty...then so be it! Not a good attitude I know, but the Company now "reaps what they sow".
EK always carry an alternate. The alternate for YBBN is YBCG! The alternate for YMML is YMAV. Not much holding fuel - especially if there are storms!!
The company policy is to take the OFP minimum fuel. If you take more than that they will hunt you down and gut you like a fish, same same if you run out of fuel.. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Most guys will take the view that it's "the Company's train set"... If you park their plane in Katmandu because you couldn't get in to kalgoorlie and have run out of duty...then so be it! Not a good attitude I know, but the Company now "reaps what they sow".
Last edited by EK_Bus Driver; 18th Sep 2013 at 23:54.