Virgin Australia (NZ) Pilots Strike Notice
2nd hand info, but told they are on wages comparable to their Australian counterparts.... Flying TURBO-PROPS!! And of course in NZ pesos.
As for conditions, not sure?
As for conditions, not sure?
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Or, VAA could just take over the routes ex Aus and crew them themselves? With the current reduction in 737 flying its possible to crew some routes out of BN, SY and ML.
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It's possible for sure, but would significantly increase the operating costs for JB. Though you never know what they are planning with the VAI 737 operation.....
But JB is saving about 85k per year in wages alone per crew having NZ operation.
But JB is saving about 85k per year in wages alone per crew having NZ operation.
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There would be nothing illegal about it at all.
Employment Relations Act 2000 No 24 (as at 01 July 2013), Public Act 97 Performance of duties of striking or locked out employees ? New Zealand Legislation
Think it would depend on the company setup and who is deemed the employer. Are the pilots employed by a NZ company or the Australian company.
In other words is the employer the same for the NZ and Australian pilots?
If they are the same employer (from a company entity viewpoint) then Aus pilots may be able to be brought in. If it is deemed a separate employer in NZ then The Australian Pilots will be illegal labour and will find themselves in breach of NZ employment law.
Of course this would no doubt need to be proven in court and by the time it is resolved the "foreign" labour will have had the desired effect to the detriment of the VANZ pilots.
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Think it would depend on the company setup and who is deemed the employer.
Are the pilots employed by a NZ company or the Australian company.
In
other words is the employer the same for the NZ and Australian pilots?
Are the pilots employed by a NZ company or the Australian company.
In
other words is the employer the same for the NZ and Australian pilots?
The Trans Tasman element adds something to it but 97(3)(a)(b)(c) reads like this to me with the 'Virgin group' being the employer.
(a) All pilots currently employed by the Virgin group.
(b) Have not been employed principally because they worked there before.
(c) With sufficient notice and complying with all relevant agreements, do VA pilot's have the right to say no?
Of course this would no doubt need to be proven in court and by the time it
is resolved the "foreign" labour will have had the desired effect to the
detriment of the VANZ pilots.
is resolved the "foreign" labour will have had the desired effect to the
detriment of the VANZ pilots.
When the Jetstar NZ pilots filed a strike notice quite a bit of NZALPA money was spent on obtaining a legal opinion from a QC with regard to this exact scenario. The general theme of it was that if you can show that Aussie pilots were being imported to carry out work that would normally be flown by NZ crews then an injunction to stop this would likely be successful. The onus would be on Virgin NZ pilots though to prove what flights they crew or what percentage of their work is crewed by NZ pilots as opposed to AUS crew. It is highly complicated and the AUS crews are under NO obligation to turn down work to keep the flights going (except maybe morally), it would be entirely up to NZALPA and the Virgin NZ pilots to stop them.
It is highly complicated and the AUS crews are under NO obligation to turn down work to keep the flights going (except maybe morally), it would be entirely up to NZALPA and the Virgin NZ pilots to stop them.
Unless there is a NZ court order stopping them I don't see how an Australian employed pilot could legally refuse to fly NZ and Pacific Sectors allocated to them.
Yep, thats what I mean. There is no LEGAL right to refuse the work for the Aussie blokes, the only thing that might stop someone from 'filling' in over in NZ may be a moral decision to make themselves unavailable.
That moral question in reality is pretty clear cut as it is almost impossible to stop yourself from being 'rostered' for the flying in question and if everyone called sick for it then they could drop themselves in 'it' for taking unauthorised industrial action.
I am hearing around the gossip channels though that the strike is not likely to go ahead as there is an 'improved' package on the table. Here's hoping.
That moral question in reality is pretty clear cut as it is almost impossible to stop yourself from being 'rostered' for the flying in question and if everyone called sick for it then they could drop themselves in 'it' for taking unauthorised industrial action.
I am hearing around the gossip channels though that the strike is not likely to go ahead as there is an 'improved' package on the table. Here's hoping.
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If the current situation in NZ were in AU? I can guarantee there would be no suggestion of pilots crossing the line if requested by the company. And if just one posted that they may have no legal choice, the $h!t storm would start, name calling the whole lot, irrespective of his or her legal position!
How about we support the Kiwis in their desire to not be the lowest paid pilots in the region. Maybe some solidarity could help right now. I 99% sure it won't come to industrial action. VA and the pilot group will sort a compromise that is acceptable to both parties. JB is not the type to allow this type of stuff to develop.
Good luck to them, they have 100% of my support. For what it's worth, if I'm asked to operate on the Tasman or South Pacific as a result of action, I for one won't be compromising the process. URTI, sick, what ever it takes.
Good luck.
How about we support the Kiwis in their desire to not be the lowest paid pilots in the region. Maybe some solidarity could help right now. I 99% sure it won't come to industrial action. VA and the pilot group will sort a compromise that is acceptable to both parties. JB is not the type to allow this type of stuff to develop.
Good luck to them, they have 100% of my support. For what it's worth, if I'm asked to operate on the Tasman or South Pacific as a result of action, I for one won't be compromising the process. URTI, sick, what ever it takes.
Good luck.
Last edited by Voz1; 25th Sep 2013 at 08:35.
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Thank you Voz.....
We appreciate your support.
Pretty sure that NZALPA will have clarified the necessary legal position to stop VAA pilots coming over and doing the flying,if its possible.
One of the union members have resigned,but that will probably be the only individual blowing complete cover.......last minute scab action never a good look.
Word is there is a substantial offer,meetings in the next few days.
Marvellous
We appreciate your support.
Pretty sure that NZALPA will have clarified the necessary legal position to stop VAA pilots coming over and doing the flying,if its possible.
One of the union members have resigned,but that will probably be the only individual blowing complete cover.......last minute scab action never a good look.
Word is there is a substantial offer,meetings in the next few days.
Marvellous
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Yes voz well done. I have friends in VANZ and there is NO WAY they would do this to us. Interesting to see when the shoe is on the other foot many seem to indicate they would work. That would totally undermine the goal and you would no longer have any support from VANZ should your need ever arise in the future. Think about the long game here, much better we are all together.
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Waterwings, the air NZ strike situation was pilots employed by the same NZ company. VANZ employment is an NZ company with NZ aoc owned by Virgin. VAA is Aus employment on aus aoc.
This and the air NZ strike are two different situations, as is the jetstar one as they have Aus aoc and cross crew with NZ/oz guys. VANZ don't.
I believe alpa and the VANZ negotiators have already looked into this and know it would be illegal.
This and the air NZ strike are two different situations, as is the jetstar one as they have Aus aoc and cross crew with NZ/oz guys. VANZ don't.
I believe alpa and the VANZ negotiators have already looked into this and know it would be illegal.
Analogy maybe?
Years ago a chap I know had a vey successful automotive business. Put everything in your wife's name was the advice from the accountant. Guess how that turned out!
Having the two companies separate may have given DJ the perceived advantage of keeping the IR situation local (bit like VAI), and in this way divide/conquer etc.., when the NZ boys and girls finally had a gut full, difficult now for them to step in and fill the breach!
Smartest people in the room, yeah right!
Make sure the deal is reasonable guys. You may just have them by the B@lls!
Years ago a chap I know had a vey successful automotive business. Put everything in your wife's name was the advice from the accountant. Guess how that turned out!
Having the two companies separate may have given DJ the perceived advantage of keeping the IR situation local (bit like VAI), and in this way divide/conquer etc.., when the NZ boys and girls finally had a gut full, difficult now for them to step in and fill the breach!
Smartest people in the room, yeah right!
Make sure the deal is reasonable guys. You may just have them by the B@lls!
The message in this is that in serious industrial negotiations you have to be prepared to go to the brink and stare the other side down. The Kiwi's have shown that they have the cajones to do this. This does not mean they are militant or extremist, it means they believed that what they are asking for is worth fighting for. That's what solidarity will get you.
For what it's worth, if I'm asked to operate on the Tasman or South Pacific as a result of action, I for one won't be compromising the process. URTI, sick, what ever it takes
When it comes to unions and/or industrial action Airlines play hard ball.
Make sure you have everything sorted out before you start risking your own job.
Personally the unions should be taking the lead here and sort it out beforehand what position the Australian pilots should be taking before people are called up.
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Neville, I like the rest of the AU based crews get 7 or so URTI a year, no medical cert required. 7 days multiplied by 1300 VAA crew compared to the 140 or so VANZ crew, equals a whole load of disruption, which funny enough is the goal if negotiations break down. Once again, I'll do what I can to insure the kiwis get a fair go.