Virgin ATR runs off runway
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Virgin ATR runs off runway
I have heard a strong rumour that a Virgin ATR ran off the runway at Moranbah yesterday. Its currently parked up on the apron awaiting some sort of maintenance / inspection and doesn't appear damaged. Apparently took a fair downwind component for landing with the resultant run off. Any takers on this one????? By that I mean any confirmed facts? Its been kept very quite if that is in fact what happened.
Groggy
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Groggie,
This post will ruffle feathers, but I can assure you and I expect it is no surprise, that the number of excessive downwind landings by Dash 8's around rural Qld are nothing short of alarming.
In fact I will go as far to say, if you work for QLink, or any other Turboprop operator, it is high time that you had a chat with the chief pilots about what is fair game and what is not.
Large downwind components Vs Head to head with local GA, you name it. I have seen plenty, and my friends (some on prune) in regional areas have observed the same. We do not have "Data" to back our observations, and we do not know the company limits, so we can easily be targeted for not knowing what we are talking about. But that does not explain bad circuit behaviour and long long landings (and take offs) with high speed, high energy dissipation (something I do know about) and the the result of.
I dare say the first few to complain and call me a w@nker will no doubt be the guilty as charged, so knock your socks off. This has been going on for a while, and when some of my heavy jet mates make the same comments, I have to wonder.
Time for a little less bravado and a bit more common sense before someone gets hurt.
And Groggie, this includes some of your industry sector too, although not as much. I assume you have seen it too.
This post will ruffle feathers, but I can assure you and I expect it is no surprise, that the number of excessive downwind landings by Dash 8's around rural Qld are nothing short of alarming.
In fact I will go as far to say, if you work for QLink, or any other Turboprop operator, it is high time that you had a chat with the chief pilots about what is fair game and what is not.
Large downwind components Vs Head to head with local GA, you name it. I have seen plenty, and my friends (some on prune) in regional areas have observed the same. We do not have "Data" to back our observations, and we do not know the company limits, so we can easily be targeted for not knowing what we are talking about. But that does not explain bad circuit behaviour and long long landings (and take offs) with high speed, high energy dissipation (something I do know about) and the the result of.
I dare say the first few to complain and call me a w@nker will no doubt be the guilty as charged, so knock your socks off. This has been going on for a while, and when some of my heavy jet mates make the same comments, I have to wonder.
Time for a little less bravado and a bit more common sense before someone gets hurt.
And Groggie, this includes some of your industry sector too, although not as much. I assume you have seen it too.
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FTS, thats fine, I am not specifically commenting on this incident, just what I have seen many times over, and some might be within limits, but geez....a downwind leg Vs. straight in landing is in the marginal cases probably a better choice. Airmanship is the word that gets used by the older folk watching.
Sumbag, No I do not, thought that was clear, my "Heavy" mates are not that heavy themselves, they generally fly two or 4 x turbo fan machines. Having said that one is a Dash 8 Captain with QL.
No Fathom........we have not, but if we had the data and knew exactly where the line in the sand is we might. But you knew that didn't you
Have you never seen a downwind landing where a lot of runway was used because the crew flew SI and not downwind for an into wind landing?. Against the local traffic at the time. Barging in, and then using the whole length, and not just rolling through. Airmanship Fathom, I would have thought that was something you had pride in.
Fathom, I have gone out on a limb here to raise a point where some may just want to think twice about cutting the margins so slim and showing poor airmanship, and the best you can do is be a smart ar$e. I opened myself up willingly to be taken shots at I suppose. But maybe you are one of the guilty ones? No probably not, you are too perfect for that.
Sumbag, No I do not, thought that was clear, my "Heavy" mates are not that heavy themselves, they generally fly two or 4 x turbo fan machines. Having said that one is a Dash 8 Captain with QL.
No Fathom........we have not, but if we had the data and knew exactly where the line in the sand is we might. But you knew that didn't you
Have you never seen a downwind landing where a lot of runway was used because the crew flew SI and not downwind for an into wind landing?. Against the local traffic at the time. Barging in, and then using the whole length, and not just rolling through. Airmanship Fathom, I would have thought that was something you had pride in.
Fathom, I have gone out on a limb here to raise a point where some may just want to think twice about cutting the margins so slim and showing poor airmanship, and the best you can do is be a smart ar$e. I opened myself up willingly to be taken shots at I suppose. But maybe you are one of the guilty ones? No probably not, you are too perfect for that.
Last edited by Jabawocky; 9th Jul 2013 at 12:44.
We do not have "Data" to back our observations, and we do not know the company limits, so we can easily be targeted for not knowing what we are talking about.
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No, he just has to fly amongst you tools Jenna. He fly's for business which is no less a reason to be in he air than you folk. In fact he contributes more to local business than the companies, or should I say company, that rape the locals with their garbage service.
I was tooling around once at a fairly big regional airport, practicing some approaches when a REX flight called inbound. I was outbound on an approach and called the REX & told him I'd knick off for his landing. He said 'no worries, finish your approach we'll slow down for you' a little bit of common courtesy (airmanship) goes a long way.
I was tooling around once at a fairly big regional airport, practicing some approaches when a REX flight called inbound. I was outbound on an approach and called the REX & told him I'd knick off for his landing. He said 'no worries, finish your approach we'll slow down for you' a little bit of common courtesy (airmanship) goes a long way.
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If you think that there is a safety issue then skip reporting it to CASA or the ATSB and go straight to the airline. They do take any report seriously, and will investigate if they think it is credible
Jaba, agreed.
You can add the RFDS to the list
Standards are not what they used to be or is it the lower experience levels showing through
You can add the RFDS to the list
Standards are not what they used to be or is it the lower experience levels showing through
During landing, the aircraft's right undercarriage left the runway surface.
The investigation is continuing.
The investigation is continuing.
It is statistically safer to land straight in then to conduct a circuit
I would say that it is statistically safer to land with a head wind.
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have to agree with that one, landing with 20kts tail wind, touchdown at say, 80kts, speed on the ground 100kts. great for brakes.
20 kt headwind, 60kts rollling speed.. how can a SI with tail wind be safer? quite a large percentage increase in speed to stop from..
sadly it quite common in regional NSW as well, i mean, why bother joinging other traffic on a corrct circuit direction, when you can just barge on in head to head with a tailwind, and demand everyone else get out of your way, because, you know, im RPT and all.
20 kt headwind, 60kts rollling speed.. how can a SI with tail wind be safer? quite a large percentage increase in speed to stop from..
sadly it quite common in regional NSW as well, i mean, why bother joinging other traffic on a corrct circuit direction, when you can just barge on in head to head with a tailwind, and demand everyone else get out of your way, because, you know, im RPT and all.
Last edited by Ultralights; 9th Jul 2013 at 22:23.
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Landing with a tailwind?!
Although I still don't agree with the blind acceptance of a tailwind, at least for the turbo props they have beta range/reverse to assist with stopping if required (and reverse parking if you swing that way 
).
I am aware of an operator in the Top End with a "spoken policy" to accept anything up to 25 knots tailwind in a C210 for takeoff or landing!? Apparently it saves unnecessary track miles.
Great idea! Save money by cutting out those unnecessary track miles caused by climbing upwind to 500' then turning to intercept track. Those precious minutes saved will ensure enough money is in the kitty to pay for a new aircraft when one has an over-run!
).I am aware of an operator in the Top End with a "spoken policy" to accept anything up to 25 knots tailwind in a C210 for takeoff or landing!? Apparently it saves unnecessary track miles.
Great idea! Save money by cutting out those unnecessary track miles caused by climbing upwind to 500' then turning to intercept track. Those precious minutes saved will ensure enough money is in the kitty to pay for a new aircraft when one has an over-run!
Interesting thread, kinda shows the anger out there for whatever reason.
Shame really I thought that pilots had a kinship amongst themselves but I guess with a high pressure world we now live in where cutting corners is needed to satisfy the commercial aspect of it all where safety at times comes second the reality is 'bugger you jack' reigns. (Sorry JR not you buddy)
I've done it all, turbo prop with critically ill patients aboard, GA where time is money & heavy metal Airlines where suttle pressure is there but ATC dictate how & when we land but I always looked at the big picture OCTA & made sure any TW Ldg wasn't outside any limits or the most common sense limit, AIRMANHSIP, the latter lacking a lot these days sadly:-(
YMIA was the typical drome where this got abused a LOT but good old Jack Funnel (may he RIP) showed the highest of Airmanship I've ever seen/heard
Good onya Jabba for speaking out, just hope you can take the punching bag results.
Wmk2
Shame really I thought that pilots had a kinship amongst themselves but I guess with a high pressure world we now live in where cutting corners is needed to satisfy the commercial aspect of it all where safety at times comes second the reality is 'bugger you jack' reigns. (Sorry JR not you buddy)
I've done it all, turbo prop with critically ill patients aboard, GA where time is money & heavy metal Airlines where suttle pressure is there but ATC dictate how & when we land but I always looked at the big picture OCTA & made sure any TW Ldg wasn't outside any limits or the most common sense limit, AIRMANHSIP, the latter lacking a lot these days sadly:-(
YMIA was the typical drome where this got abused a LOT but good old Jack Funnel (may he RIP) showed the highest of Airmanship I've ever seen/heard
Good onya Jabba for speaking out, just hope you can take the punching bag results.
Wmk2
Last edited by Wally Mk2; 9th Jul 2013 at 23:45.
Jaba, I don't see what my airmanship and alleged perfection has to do with it.
If you want something done about it, and not prepared to submit an Incident Report or REPCON, then what?
Venting your spleen on pprune will make you feel better, and you'll get cheers from other pruners, but it won't achieve much else.
If sufficient official complaints are received, then it will filter back to the airlines.
Despite your prediction, no one has called you a w@nker yet!
If you want something done about it, and not prepared to submit an Incident Report or REPCON, then what?
Venting your spleen on pprune will make you feel better, and you'll get cheers from other pruners, but it won't achieve much else.
If sufficient official complaints are received, then it will filter back to the airlines.
Despite your prediction, no one has called you a w@nker yet!
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I am aware of an operator in the Top End with a "spoken policy" to accept anything up to 25 knots tailwind in a C210 for takeoff or landing!? Apparently it saves unnecessary track miles.
Great idea! Save money by cutting out those unnecessary track miles caused by climbing upwind to 500' then turning to intercept track. Those precious minutes saved will ensure enough money is in the kitty to pay for a new aircraft when one has an over-run!
Great idea! Save money by cutting out those unnecessary track miles caused by climbing upwind to 500' then turning to intercept track. Those precious minutes saved will ensure enough money is in the kitty to pay for a new aircraft when one has an over-run!