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Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing

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Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing

Old 29th Dec 2013, 05:07
  #821 (permalink)  
 
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Mel RWY 16 cat IIIB.
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 06:03
  #822 (permalink)  
 
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Hempy,
What you have to remember is the safety systems that were in place in the past have been watered down in the name of affordable safety.The SOC's are gone the FSO's are gone the met observers are gone.All contributing to the overall decision making of the pilot in his day to day operation.If the FSO and the met observer had been in place in YMID the pilots would have had forewarning of the deteriorating WX conditions.
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 22:01
  #823 (permalink)  
 
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How? And which ones? Does this still apply when the restricted areas are active?
Saying you can land there in an emergency and nominating it as a alternate are two different things.
A mate who is an International 747 captain told me his airline uses woomera as a waypoint / alternate. It allows them to reset the fuel reserves enroute to Melb.

Woomera became dramatically more difficult to access when Airforce took it over from the Dept of Defence about 3 years ago, but it used to be relatively straight forward. It would certainly be very do-able with 30 min notice. In that era the restricted areas where not active very often. Even now they are frequently inactive. If there was a compelling need to land there I have no doubt it could be arranged at short notice. The ARO's there are very sharp. There is one on duty 24 hrs per day 365 days a year.
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 22:08
  #824 (permalink)  
 
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If the FSO and the met observer had been in place in YMID the pilots would have had forewarning of the deteriorating WX conditions.
Read p5. The BOM had good information on the actual conditions. The problem is that it wasn't passed on to the flight crews.

There was also a MET observer at Mildura providing information - see p17
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 22:18
  #825 (permalink)  
 
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What on earth did pilots do before the advent of the ILS?
Firstly, ILS was first used by airlines in 1938 after being invented in 1929. Before ILS airlines were flying DC-2's. Do you really want to go back to that?

Secondly, the cost of not having ILS is poor flight reliability, on time performance, diversions and increased risk of accidents. Our society will no longer tolerate that.

The issue as I see it is that the airlines & pilot skill has been covering for Australia's 3rd world aviation infrastructure. This episode highlights this. Australia has fewer ILS equipped runways than Malaysia. Mildura has spent $6.4m redecorating the terminal (ie no new roof area, no increase in facilities), yet we won't spend $1.5m on an ILS. We've lost the plot.
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 22:21
  #826 (permalink)  
 
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mate who is an International 747 captain told me his airline uses woomera as a waypoint / alternate. It allows them to reset the fuel reserves enroute to Melb
That's not nominating it as a alternate, that's just a flightplanning trick to squeeze more fuel out of your flightplan. If they did not have enough gas at Woomera they would be diverting to Adelaide.

Nominating an alternate means that you will be going there if you can't land at your destination. It's not an emergency just a diversion.
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Old 29th Dec 2013, 23:11
  #827 (permalink)  
 
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I have read the ATSB factual report and all I can say is, Congratulations to all crew involved for landing safely in very difficult circumstances.

Your training and years of experience avoided what in many other instances has all too often proved to be a fatal chain of events. Few of us will ever have to deal with such emergencies and I can only hope that those of us that might will be as professional as you have proven to be, well done.
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Old 30th Dec 2013, 04:07
  #828 (permalink)  
 
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Mildura has spent $6.4m redecorating the terminal (ie no new roof area, no increase in facilities), yet we won't spend $1.5m on an ILS. We've lost the plot.

I doubt we ever had the plot to begin with. Australia is mired in red tape & beauracracy, it's about the only thing we ARE the best in the world at. That and institutionalised corruption. The backslapping & self congratulation that goes on in this country over achieving nothing is impressive.
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Old 30th Dec 2013, 14:24
  #829 (permalink)  
 
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GLS

Where are we at with the GLS system being trialled at SYD? Doesn't it allow you to do satellite-based "precision-like" approaches to all runway ends from a pretty simple 4 or 5 antenna patch plus a demountable and a UPS?

Updates please, anyone????
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Old 7th Dec 2014, 09:04
  #830 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing happens quickly!

Looking at a full report in March 2015

Investigation: AO-2013-100 - Weather related operational event involving B737s VH-YIR and VH-VYK at Mildura Airport, Victoria on 18 June 2013
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Old 13th Apr 2015, 07:35
  #831 (permalink)  
 
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Final report 'may' now be released in August 2015.
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Old 15th Jan 2016, 04:21
  #832 (permalink)  
 
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737's in YMIA

Now told #atsb report will be at earliest February 2016.

Almost 3 years:-

Hiding something ?? or

Letting things cool down??
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Old 15th Jan 2016, 04:51
  #833 (permalink)  
 
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I doubt they are hiding something. My guess is that if the report has been done well there will have been a lot of digging into departments/services that normally don't get much scrutiny in an incident investigation. That may have taken some time to do. Just a guess.
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Old 17th Jan 2016, 23:05
  #834 (permalink)  
 
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#PelAir

In #pelair, there were matters not properly investigated, which went to the life-jackets, the CVR, the FDR etc.

That this was the first survivable open sea ditching af a jet at night surely would lead to a much more thorough investigation. To read the report in the Senate, which shows poor investigation and writing techniques, with little or no notice taken of the DIP's [Directly Interested Parties] except #casa who had a lot to hide as witnessed by the surfacing of the Chambers report and the improper MOU between #casa and #atsb.

AND #atsb is not going to cover up in the #Mildura "incident".
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Old 18th Jan 2016, 00:19
  #835 (permalink)  
 
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I would hope that the ATSB will have learnt from the Pelair experience. One of the issues with Mildura is that two RPT (an important distinction with Pelair) jets ended up at an airport where the forecast was seriously deficient. Adelaide is not Norfolk Island and Mildura is not in the middle of the ocean. I also doubt that a damning audit report on either Qantas or Virgin is lurking in the background.
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