Virgin Aircraft 'Emergency' Landing
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: australia
Posts: 257
Hempy,
What you have to remember is the safety systems that were in place in the past have been watered down in the name of affordable safety.The SOC's are gone the FSO's are gone the met observers are gone.All contributing to the overall decision making of the pilot in his day to day operation.If the FSO and the met observer had been in place in YMID the pilots would have had forewarning of the deteriorating WX conditions.
What you have to remember is the safety systems that were in place in the past have been watered down in the name of affordable safety.The SOC's are gone the FSO's are gone the met observers are gone.All contributing to the overall decision making of the pilot in his day to day operation.If the FSO and the met observer had been in place in YMID the pilots would have had forewarning of the deteriorating WX conditions.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,652
How? And which ones? Does this still apply when the restricted areas are active?
Saying you can land there in an emergency and nominating it as a alternate are two different things.
Saying you can land there in an emergency and nominating it as a alternate are two different things.
Woomera became dramatically more difficult to access when Airforce took it over from the Dept of Defence about 3 years ago, but it used to be relatively straight forward. It would certainly be very do-able with 30 min notice. In that era the restricted areas where not active very often. Even now they are frequently inactive. If there was a compelling need to land there I have no doubt it could be arranged at short notice. The ARO's there are very sharp. There is one on duty 24 hrs per day 365 days a year.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,652
If the FSO and the met observer had been in place in YMID the pilots would have had forewarning of the deteriorating WX conditions.
There was also a MET observer at Mildura providing information - see p17
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 1,652
What on earth did pilots do before the advent of the ILS?
Secondly, the cost of not having ILS is poor flight reliability, on time performance, diversions and increased risk of accidents. Our society will no longer tolerate that.
The issue as I see it is that the airlines & pilot skill has been covering for Australia's 3rd world aviation infrastructure. This episode highlights this. Australia has fewer ILS equipped runways than Malaysia. Mildura has spent $6.4m redecorating the terminal (ie no new roof area, no increase in facilities), yet we won't spend $1.5m on an ILS. We've lost the plot.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: In da Big Smoke
Posts: 2,319
mate who is an International 747 captain told me his airline uses woomera as a waypoint / alternate. It allows them to reset the fuel reserves enroute to Melb
Nominating an alternate means that you will be going there if you can't land at your destination. It's not an emergency just a diversion.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 337
I have read the ATSB factual report and all I can say is, Congratulations to all crew involved for landing safely in very difficult circumstances.
Your training and years of experience avoided what in many other instances has all too often proved to be a fatal chain of events. Few of us will ever have to deal with such emergencies and I can only hope that those of us that might will be as professional as you have proven to be, well done.
Your training and years of experience avoided what in many other instances has all too often proved to be a fatal chain of events. Few of us will ever have to deal with such emergencies and I can only hope that those of us that might will be as professional as you have proven to be, well done.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: rangaville
Posts: 2,283
Mildura has spent $6.4m redecorating the terminal (ie no new roof area, no increase in facilities), yet we won't spend $1.5m on an ILS. We've lost the plot.
I doubt we ever had the plot to begin with. Australia is mired in red tape & beauracracy, it's about the only thing we ARE the best in the world at. That and institutionalised corruption. The backslapping & self congratulation that goes on in this country over achieving nothing is impressive.
I doubt we ever had the plot to begin with. Australia is mired in red tape & beauracracy, it's about the only thing we ARE the best in the world at. That and institutionalised corruption. The backslapping & self congratulation that goes on in this country over achieving nothing is impressive.
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 122
GLS
Where are we at with the GLS system being trialled at SYD? Doesn't it allow you to do satellite-based "precision-like" approaches to all runway ends from a pretty simple 4 or 5 antenna patch plus a demountable and a UPS? 
Updates please, anyone????
Updates please, anyone????
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Skating away on the thin ice of a new day.
Posts: 1,024
Nothing happens quickly!
Looking at a full report in March 2015
Investigation: AO-2013-100 - Weather related operational event involving B737s VH-YIR and VH-VYK at Mildura Airport, Victoria on 18 June 2013
Investigation: AO-2013-100 - Weather related operational event involving B737s VH-YIR and VH-VYK at Mildura Airport, Victoria on 18 June 2013
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 41S174E
Age: 52
Posts: 2,767
I doubt they are hiding something. My guess is that if the report has been done well there will have been a lot of digging into departments/services that normally don't get much scrutiny in an incident investigation. That may have taken some time to do. Just a guess.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West of SY OZ
Posts: 69
#PelAir
In #pelair, there were matters not properly investigated, which went to the life-jackets, the CVR, the FDR etc.
That this was the first survivable open sea ditching af a jet at night surely would lead to a much more thorough investigation. To read the report in the Senate, which shows poor investigation and writing techniques, with little or no notice taken of the DIP's [Directly Interested Parties] except #casa who had a lot to hide as witnessed by the surfacing of the Chambers report and the improper MOU between #casa and #atsb.
AND #atsb is not going to cover up in the #Mildura "incident".
That this was the first survivable open sea ditching af a jet at night surely would lead to a much more thorough investigation. To read the report in the Senate, which shows poor investigation and writing techniques, with little or no notice taken of the DIP's [Directly Interested Parties] except #casa who had a lot to hide as witnessed by the surfacing of the Chambers report and the improper MOU between #casa and #atsb.
AND #atsb is not going to cover up in the #Mildura "incident".
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 67
I would hope that the ATSB will have learnt from the Pelair experience. One of the issues with Mildura is that two RPT (an important distinction with Pelair) jets ended up at an airport where the forecast was seriously deficient. Adelaide is not Norfolk Island and Mildura is not in the middle of the ocean. I also doubt that a damning audit report on either Qantas or Virgin is lurking in the background.
