Hooroo to Uluru - QF Mainline withdraws
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full of rich Asian and German tourists
Just because people are seated in JC, doesn't mean a great deal. Plenty of redemption traffic in JC these days.
An airline isn't going to exit a market unless it has been through a rigours validation process, including robust route analysis, schedule committees etc.
If the airline has exited, then it is for sound, economic reasons.
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Hey T-Vasis,
Interesting. I'd thought that in these enlightened days of the segmented business model each part of the group had to pay its own way. If pax are redeeming FF points for seats on mainline services, shouldn't Qantas FF be paying mainline for them? How exactly does it make a difference to a route's profitability if JC is full of punter's burning points as opposed to paying cash?
Stop ... my sides are hurting!
Just because people are seated in JC, doesn't mean a great deal. Plenty of redemption traffic in JC these days.
If the airline has exited, then it is for sound, economic reasons.
As an aside, back in '87 when I got to Gove, I was told that there were only two places that B737's operated into without a Tower. One was Gove , which had the only RPT's (so they built the tower - just never ended up using it. Thanks's Dick! 
). The TAA/QF (maybe also Ansett) B737's that operated into Ayers Rock OCTA were all classed as charters, and so under the existing Regs, didn't require a tower. Both AD's were AFIZ's, a remote one in AYQ's case, out of Alice.
). The TAA/QF (maybe also Ansett) B737's that operated into Ayers Rock OCTA were all classed as charters, and so under the existing Regs, didn't require a tower. Both AD's were AFIZ's, a remote one in AYQ's case, out of Alice.
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 11th Jun 2013 at 22:41.
It could be that the QF service was unprofitable, I agree with the previous comments if it was profitable it wouldn't have got pulled. However, it might have been profitable just LESS profitable than JQ doing the route.
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Maybe, but I doubt it if they were getting reasonable loads in J class.
The bit that concerns me is that the number of pax redeeming FF points has a direct impact on the profitability of a route, and decisions are being made based on this. Bear in mind that up until a few years ago QFF was seen as a liability. Then, flick of a switch, it is now the most profitable part of the group with mainline declining by a similar amount.
The bit that concerns me is that the number of pax redeeming FF points has a direct impact on the profitability of a route, and decisions are being made based on this. Bear in mind that up until a few years ago QFF was seen as a liability. Then, flick of a switch, it is now the most profitable part of the group with mainline declining by a similar amount.
Nunc est bibendum
And you never hear of the 'liability' that the FF scheme carries in terms of all those points not yet redeemed. I wonder who carries that burden?
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Hi all
FF points are owned by the "scheme" and actually have a monetary value to the Airline when redeemed. Participants including Airlines, car rental companies, Supermarkets Hotels etc. would pay into the scheme every time a card was used on a purchase through them.
My business franchisor has an arrangement with a Coles based loyalty program which I chose not to go with as it costs me when someone presents the card which means I have to increase service charges to the client to cover it.
I think you will find the QF FF scheme is a sub company or even now may be external.
Either way, the QF redeemed points are paid for at a given yield level to the FF organisation. The Airline then gets them back at least in part when they redemption is flown.
The yield may be below the regular lowest yield level, but tht is factored in over the class mix structure of the given flight. Therefore having available FF seats on a given service will effectively be mixed in with the "paying" classes to give the required yield, and overall naturally pushed up the averagfe of those paying fares.
I guess it is just more smoke and mirrors but the FF redemption seats do have a value to the airline so if you are pushed aside at the "drome when there is a problem because your seats are freebie, feel free to arc up. They ARE revenue seats not FOC.
This is given away on QF with the taxes applicable to a redemption booking compared to a regular booking. Discounting the credit card fee and taking the normal cheapest OPTDEAL fare MEL SYD MEL the Frantic Flapper taxes amount to $69.52 where on the paid fare they are $55.38.
This either indicates that the value to the Airline is above the value of the cheapest market fare as the GST component can be the only variable in the taxes or the Airline or FF department are milking it.
Interesting, no?
Either way, I guess we lose.
FF and other loyalty schemes are dangerous things if not properly run. When Pan Am first went totally tits up the number of points they were carrying on their frequent flyer scheme was so great that they would have had to operate every scheduled service fully booked with redemptions for 6 months to clear it.
For Airlines, FF schemes are like herpes - once you have them you can't get rid of them.
Best all
EWL
FF points are owned by the "scheme" and actually have a monetary value to the Airline when redeemed. Participants including Airlines, car rental companies, Supermarkets Hotels etc. would pay into the scheme every time a card was used on a purchase through them.
My business franchisor has an arrangement with a Coles based loyalty program which I chose not to go with as it costs me when someone presents the card which means I have to increase service charges to the client to cover it.
I think you will find the QF FF scheme is a sub company or even now may be external.
Either way, the QF redeemed points are paid for at a given yield level to the FF organisation. The Airline then gets them back at least in part when they redemption is flown.
The yield may be below the regular lowest yield level, but tht is factored in over the class mix structure of the given flight. Therefore having available FF seats on a given service will effectively be mixed in with the "paying" classes to give the required yield, and overall naturally pushed up the averagfe of those paying fares.
I guess it is just more smoke and mirrors but the FF redemption seats do have a value to the airline so if you are pushed aside at the "drome when there is a problem because your seats are freebie, feel free to arc up. They ARE revenue seats not FOC.
This is given away on QF with the taxes applicable to a redemption booking compared to a regular booking. Discounting the credit card fee and taking the normal cheapest OPTDEAL fare MEL SYD MEL the Frantic Flapper taxes amount to $69.52 where on the paid fare they are $55.38.
This either indicates that the value to the Airline is above the value of the cheapest market fare as the GST component can be the only variable in the taxes or the Airline or FF department are milking it.
Interesting, no?
Either way, I guess we lose.
FF and other loyalty schemes are dangerous things if not properly run. When Pan Am first went totally tits up the number of points they were carrying on their frequent flyer scheme was so great that they would have had to operate every scheduled service fully booked with redemptions for 6 months to clear it.
For Airlines, FF schemes are like herpes - once you have them you can't get rid of them.
Best all
EWL
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EWL, thanks for that insider info. It clarifies for me how FF works. Very interesting the GST comparison. That seems to be a peephole into a system that confounds many.
All the best to those at the Rock who are affected by the withdrawal of the QF service. I hope the gods (no, not THOSE ones) smile upon you.
Le Vieux
All the best to those at the Rock who are affected by the withdrawal of the QF service. I hope the gods (no, not THOSE ones) smile upon you.
Le Vieux
Tell me , if you travel as a pax with jetstar, is it de rigeur to wear a Ryanair overcoat, as you do over here, no matter how hot, to avoid taking a suitcase. Amazing how much you can carry with it loaded and the carryon bag.
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Well said Old "Un re the AYQ staff. I have lost 3 ports over my years in the industry and you feel you have let your team down. To that crew, regional staff who were flexible and could do anything can get job anywhere. When the ship goes doewn the good stuff floats and is picked up quickly. The hurt never leaves though.
I have outlived one of the bastards, the Fat Man, hope to outlive the Silver Bodgie and also Wally the Wog from TN days, after which my job is officially done.
As for the taxes on FF bookings it may indeed be a peephole into a very nice little earner for either the FF scheme or the scheme entity.
Maybe some of the media trolls who frequent here like herpes on a formerly fine dangly bit might like to follow this up
I don't suppose that will happen as there is no Mrs Scrotum-Duckwarbeler who was stressesd as her miniature chiuahuah Bubbles was in the hold of the aeroplane and after the fog drama and zero flap landing it had been 10 minutes and Tarquin was still missing
If any of them wanted a real story, I could deliver the dirt on what really goes on in Corporate travel with the slings to middle management and over chargeing. I have solid evidence but the media will never carry it as it will implicate major advertisers. Irf the Captain outside is plastic it is pretty certain the crew are synthetic and have been prograsmmed by the borg collective.
AAARGH
Best regards
EWL
I have outlived one of the bastards, the Fat Man, hope to outlive the Silver Bodgie and also Wally the Wog from TN days, after which my job is officially done.
As for the taxes on FF bookings it may indeed be a peephole into a very nice little earner for either the FF scheme or the scheme entity.
Maybe some of the media trolls who frequent here like herpes on a formerly fine dangly bit might like to follow this up
I don't suppose that will happen as there is no Mrs Scrotum-Duckwarbeler who was stressesd as her miniature chiuahuah Bubbles was in the hold of the aeroplane and after the fog drama and zero flap landing it had been 10 minutes and Tarquin was still missing
If any of them wanted a real story, I could deliver the dirt on what really goes on in Corporate travel with the slings to middle management and over chargeing. I have solid evidence but the media will never carry it as it will implicate major advertisers. Irf the Captain outside is plastic it is pretty certain the crew are synthetic and have been prograsmmed by the borg collective.
AAARGH
Best regards
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 14th Jun 2013 at 12:59.
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Did a trip to the rock in the last week of the service and the staff told me Jetstar expected them to stay on and do their jobs for Jetstar terms & conditions obviously. The QF staff have all taken redeployment to other QF ports and Jetstar could not get anyone to live out there on the money they were offering so are currently flying staff out there and paying to put them up with meals & accommodation, true low cost airlines can't afford such costs! Nothing wrong with the loads anytime I've flown there, 80% or greater.
Did a trip to the rock in the last week of the service and the staff told me Jetstar expected them to stay on and do their jobs for Jetstar terms & conditions obviously. The QF staff have all taken redeployment to other QF ports and Jetstar could not get anyone to live out there on the money they were offering so are currently flying staff out there and paying to put them up with meals & accommodation
I may be wrong, I thought the qantas staff are also responsible for the 717's that fly in from cairns and Darwin so surely they would have to keep some staff. Again, I may be wrong, but doesn't qantas also take care of virgins 737 at Ayers Rock too?
Bottums Up
Thread Starter
Ground handling at the Rock for QantasLink, Virgin & Jetstar by Oceania.
In starting this thread I had hoped to elicit posts along the lines of Farewell, goodluck, great YouTubes rather than a gum-fest on management incompetence and the usual Aussie whinging.
I tell ya, whinging Poms have got nothing on us lot.
In starting this thread I had hoped to elicit posts along the lines of Farewell, goodluck, great YouTubes rather than a gum-fest on management incompetence and the usual Aussie whinging.
I tell ya, whinging Poms have got nothing on us lot.
In starting this thread I had hoped to elicit posts along the lines of Farewell, goodluck, great YouTubes rather than a gum-fest on management incompetence and the usual Aussie whinging..
Last edited by pull-up-terrain; 15th Jun 2013 at 02:16.
