Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Nice bit of airmanship

Old 2nd Jun 2013, 06:30
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Nice bit of airmanship

Qantas 767 MEL-SYD this afternoon-landing in dodgy conditons (X-wind, turbulence,gusts etc). All got worse last 50 ft before TD and at wheel touch it wasn't specially pretty so they gave it away and after a few minutes and a calming PA, did it again.

How many (if they lived) pilots who went off the far end will go to their last days wishing they had made such a good decision.

Well done. All the fine regs and SMSs and MBA driven management will never take the place of a couple of folks up the front who know how to make good decisions.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 06:40
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Ah, but those behind the regs, SMS and CRM will all claim they contributed to such a fine display of threat and error management.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 09:41
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Yes, I can assure you that various instructors over the years have contributed to the decision making of the pilot flying - however, having been involved in the 'system' for over 3 decades I can be absolutely certain that the management and regulation of aviation in Australia have, not only the inability, but also no intention of providing any meaningful input in to the operation of a multi crewed modern jet.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 09:42
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Oh and by the way - great to hear a pilot has made a good decision.....
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 09:49
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It happens more often at windy places like Wellington or Hobart.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 09:50
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Keg must be getting twitchy in his old age. Landed with plenty of fuel, I hope!
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 13:05
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Well, I'll be bu##ered, pilots doing their job, pure and simple.

And all the SMS bull sh#t had nought input into their doing their job, and doing it well.

The industry is full of academic wa%&ers with their brains full of theory, but no experience - and they are the ones calling the shots. God help us all!!!

Threat and Error management - it's mostly rubbish, it's about ability and experience.

I'm with you SeeBee:-

the management and regulation of aviation in Australia have, not only the inability, but also no intention of providing any meaningful input in to the operation of a multi crewed modern jet.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 13:23
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Angel

Keg must be getting twitchy in his old age. Landed with plenty of fuel, I hope!
Pfft. It was fairly benign when I landed 16L just before 2100 local. 210/25G35 if I recall and half decent vis. A decent shower had gone through about 20 minutes before.

Is landing with 100 minutes of fuel enough to keep the PPRuNe crowd off my back? The flight plan had me landing with 65.
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Old 2nd Jun 2013, 15:43
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Went around landing 16r in the flare entering turbulent air from late departing a330 in still air few years ago. Reckon we would have scraped a pod if we'd continued. Tower almost had kittens. We were turning right before their hasty heading instructions that's for sure !

Fun for the whole family
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 00:20
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I wonder if ATC have in the back of their minds that any landing aircraft at any time may go-around.

The reason may not be initially obvious to the tower - e.g, an un-stabilised approach; turtle on the runway.
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 00:54
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All got worse last 50 ft before TD and at wheel touch it wasn't specially pretty so they gave it away
You blokes/blokettes are kidding yourselves.

Next decade's pilotless 787 would have foreseen the shear and turbulence and gone around long before 50ft or compensated such that another "greaser" was successfully rolled on!
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 02:25
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Last Brisbane figures I saw were something like
58,000 movements / 44 go rounds ( 20 pilot initiated, 18 separation, 6 runway blocked or maybe that turtle again )
Don't know what Sydney was
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 05:37
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20 pilot initiated, 18 separation, 6 runway blocked or maybe that turtle again
Are you calling the BAe146 a turtle?
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 06:46
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Keg

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Talking

Are you calling the BAe146 a turtle?
If the boot fits....
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Old 3rd Jun 2013, 10:11
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I wonder if ATC have in the back of their minds that any landing aircraft at any time may go-around.
A landing aircraft will not be permitted to cross the threshold of the runway on its final approach until:
a. a preceding departing aircraft using the same runway:
(1) is airborne, and
-has commenced a turn; or
-is beyond the point on the runway at which the landing aircraft could be expected to complete its landing roll and there is sufficient distance to manoeuvre safely in the event of a missed approach
Yes, ATCs do have in the back of their minds that any landing aircraft at any time may go-around, although the reported 'late' go-around is not that common.

The thing about the bolded wording of the separation standard (sufficient distance to manoeuvre safely in the event of a missed approach) is that it is never tested when the aircraft lands.
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Old 5th Jun 2013, 14:29
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Say what you like about the SMS, CRM et al it is all responsible for the end result in most safe operations COM that REQUIRES a go round from an unstabilised approach even unto wheel touch. It assumes the PNF is monitoring the defined stabilised approach parameters for the PF. And gives the pilot permission to exercise what you have called airmanship but Is part of the deal between him and the operator.

That mindset has not always been thus.

C441 gets it

G'day Keg me old.

Airmanship? Suggests something it was IMHO not. Help me out with the right word.
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 01:43
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Airmanship? Suggests something it was IMHO not. Help me out with the right word.

Dare I say..........common sense!!!
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 02:05
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Airmanship? Suggests something it was IMHO not. Help me out with the right
word.
How about two words? 'Self Preservation'!
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 02:53
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Thumbs up

Good to see you back Gaunty..... or did you never leave and have just been lurking in other forums?
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Old 6th Jun 2013, 03:07
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As distinct from this incident: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...u-overrun.html

Caused, or so we are told, by a defective wiper!
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