Minimum jet separation on final
Once followed an Jet Blue A-320 down final on 31R at JFK in a 744, gradually closing until when he touched down we were at 2nm ....maybe. We're thinking Canarsie go-round. The controller wasn't and told him "I need ya off as soon as ya can. I gotta seven-forty-seven up ya ass at 2 miles". The A-320 skipped off at "E", a near right angle taxiway, about 750m from the displaced threshold. Had he not made it at "E" we were off on another Long Island scenic! Thanks passed on for the nice work by them!! 
...........probably don't need to do that all the time though.....
...........probably don't need to do that all the time though.....
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af,
Look how many RNP procedures there are for each airport that are permanently NOTAM'd out...
These have been approved in every respect, from design, ops and flight val, BUT...
Do you actually need environmental approval?
These have been approved in every respect, from design, ops and flight val, BUT...
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The environmental people seem to have a strangle hold on operational efficiency refinements. Maybe they have been allowed excessive veto powers that are overdue for a calculated challenge. If the problem is actually political, then so is the solution. . . . .
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Witnessed at holding point recently. "So and so are you ready for immediate?" Affirm is response and cleared for immediate takeoff. Puts the power up and looks to be in position to do a nice rolling start and then proceeds to SQUARE OFF the line up taking at least 20 seconds. International told to go round. ATC says thanks for immediate takeoff and a happy "your welcome" was response. Not a clue. If we want better separation standards we all need to play the game.
Originally Posted by shrags
Witnessed at holding point recently. "So and so are you ready for immediate?" Affirm is response and cleared for immediate takeoff. Puts the power up and looks to be in position to do a nice rolling start and then proceeds to SQUARE OFF the line up taking at least 20 seconds. International told to go round. ATC says thanks for immediate takeoff and a happy "your welcome" was response. Not a clue. If we want better separation standards we all need to play the game.
Originally Posted by AIP ENR 1.1 page 13
A clearance for immediate take--off may be issued to an aircraft before it enters the runway. On acceptance of such clearance the aircraft shall taxi out to the runway and take off in one continuous movement.
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If thats the attitude capn bloggs, then atc should do away with immediate departures. They do it for your sake, not theirs. SHRAGS is spot on. Everyone needs to play the game.
Last edited by adc123; 23rd Apr 2013 at 10:53.
SHRAGS is spot on. Everyone needs to play the game.
I'll put it another way. Tell everybody what the "rules" are and then everybody will play the way you think they should.
Minimum jet separation on final
What I find retarded is the fact distance remaining for departure is published for a square turn onto the runway when the line is curved. Why the hell isn't distance remaining calculated from where the lead in line meets the RWY centreline???? Luckily some pilots use discretion and follow the line on an immediate departure because it makes a big difference compared to the affectionally nicknamed 'woosy backtrack'.
Luckily some pilots use discretion and follow the line on an immediate departure
Why the hell isn't distance remaining calculated from where the lead in line meets the RWY centreline????
As usual, front-liners are arguing, when it is the responsibility of the AsA bosses and company performance departments to get talking to give me the performance data I need to do "proper" rolling takeoffs. I can assure you that I am not going to expose myself by cutting the corner on lineup/roll just because somebody wants me to gun it, if my performance does not allow it.
Last edited by Capn Bloggs; 23rd Apr 2013 at 11:53.
If you can't do a rolling departure without a mini-backtrack, when asked the 'ready immediate' question, say no. Quite easy really. If your performance data allows for it, say yes. Or run the figures for worst-case departure - rolling without backtrack with 5 knots up the clacker, and taxi for that intersection. Seen it done, helps everyone out.
Minimum jet separation on final
Exactly.
Performance data needs to calculated based on distance remaining after a curved line up. Theres 2689m from A7, surely 50m can be spared. Everyone wins.
I know it seems trivial, but when the place is rockin you have only a few seconds between legal and go-'round.
Performance data needs to calculated based on distance remaining after a curved line up. Theres 2689m from A7, surely 50m can be spared. Everyone wins.
I know it seems trivial, but when the place is rockin you have only a few seconds between legal and go-'round.
If you can't do a rolling departure without a mini-backtrack...
If we want better separation standards we all need to play the game
If we built more runways in this country this would be a redundant topic.
Last edited by neville_nobody; 24th Apr 2013 at 01:27.
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I know it seems trivial, but when the place is rockin you have only a few seconds between legal and go-'round.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 26th Apr 2013 at 17:19.
