R/T congestion
On the subject of PDC's, why in Australia do you have to 'readback' the PDC. In Europe the PDC would arrive at the aircraft and you would 'accept' it via the ACAR's. Once this was done there was no need to then call 'Delivery'. You went straight to ground or pushback frequency.
Seems just more clutter here to have to 'readback' the PDC.
Seems just more clutter here to have to 'readback' the PDC.
Are the PDC's you are talking about an FMC uplink or an ACARS message?
My vote for Sydney goes to a separate Frequency for pushback clearances.
This would immediately reduce traffic on 121.7 by about 20% ( guessing) and that 20% would make a huge difference. This would be a comparatively simple solution and by us five- ten years.
My vote for Sydney goes to a separate Frequency for pushback clearances.
This would immediately reduce traffic on 121.7 by about 20% ( guessing) and that 20% would make a huge difference. This would be a comparatively simple solution and by us five- ten years.
Are the PDC's you are talking about an FMC uplink or an ACARS message?
Last edited by BuzzBox; 14th Apr 2013 at 07:49.
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A very common practice overseas on busy frequencies is to call ground with your c/s then wait. The controller then responds to you as and when priority and traffic warrant. Here we tend to wait for a space then transmit the entire message. If it over transmits or the controller has a different priority it results in much repetition and frequency congestion.
Perhaps we should adopt he practice, seems to work well.
Perhaps we should adopt he practice, seems to work well.
Last edited by ernestkgann; 14th Apr 2013 at 05:33.
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Hong Kong has two Ground frequencies; one for the north side and another for the south. Perhaps Sydney could do something similar, with one Ground frequency for the west side (ie west of 16R/34L) and another for the east?
I know in some non busy periods there is just 1 frequency used but most of the time there are the two.
Clear, concise & sharp RT is whats needed in busy times, not excessive readbacks of stuff not required or waffle... save that for quiet times.
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EKG
This is not a common practice in Europe, UK, Middle East, China, USA, Australia or NZ. Which countries are you referring to?
Usually, calling the controller with just your callsign results in "XXX go ahead" which has now resulted in two extra transmissions, which if adopted by everyone, would double the transmissions instead of reducing them and further clutter the frequency.
This practice was used in the past at remote Canadian, etc airports in order to wake up the controller but it is not used at busy airports.
The controller has your flight plan and is expecting to hear from you shortly before your TSAT/ pushback time.
A standard set of worldwide abreviated procedures would help and PDC/ ACARs, CPDLC and apron control are the way to go.
Oh, and taxi clearence should be "XXX, follow the greens"
This is not a common practice in Europe, UK, Middle East, China, USA, Australia or NZ. Which countries are you referring to?
Usually, calling the controller with just your callsign results in "XXX go ahead" which has now resulted in two extra transmissions, which if adopted by everyone, would double the transmissions instead of reducing them and further clutter the frequency.
This practice was used in the past at remote Canadian, etc airports in order to wake up the controller but it is not used at busy airports.
The controller has your flight plan and is expecting to hear from you shortly before your TSAT/ pushback time.
A standard set of worldwide abreviated procedures would help and PDC/ ACARs, CPDLC and apron control are the way to go.
Oh, and taxi clearence should be "XXX, follow the greens"
Dont SYD already have that, 121.7 for the Domestic Terminal and areas east of 16R/34L and 126.5 for the International Terminal and west of 16R/34L.
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It was a common practice at just about all those places, except Australia and New Zealand. I haven't lived overseas for five years so it may have changed but somehow I don't think your first call to ground at Mumbai includes everything. If so, great, things have changed. Thanks though Mastema, experts like you remind me why I rarely contribute. For the record I've flown in all those places as well. No doubt you're employed by the evil empire in Dubai as I used to be.
Last edited by ernestkgann; 14th Apr 2013 at 08:32.
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EKG
Mumbai maybe, never a 'common' practice elsewhere.
No need for you to be to be a expert smart ass, aviation has enough of them.
Insha'Allah
Mumbai maybe, never a 'common' practice elsewhere.
No need for you to be to be a expert smart ass, aviation has enough of them.
Insha'Allah
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On the subject of PDC's, why in Australia do you have to 'readback' the PDC. In Europe the PDC would arrive at the aircraft and you would 'accept' it via the ACAR's. Once this was done there was no need to then call 'Delivery'. You went straight to ground or pushback frequency.
Seems just more clutter here to have to 'readback' the PDC.
Seems just more clutter here to have to 'readback' the PDC.
This all helps reduce frequency congestion
The whole voice back read back is a redundant part of the process, particularly with datalink equipped aircraft
The other PDC system is a two-way system, used in Hong Kong, Bangkok, Dubai and parts of Europe, to name a few. The crew requests a departure clearance via ACARS. The ATC PDC system responds with a departure clearance message which is uplinked directly to the aircraft, again via ACARS. The crew then reviews the clearance and accepts it via ACARS, whereupon another message is downlinked to the ATC system. That message is checked by the system, a further 'Clearance Confirmed' message is uplinked to the aircraft and there is no requirement for a read back.
