Pacific Blue Queenstown incident
Surely this wasn't about EFATO escape procedures as per the Otago Daily suggests....
In this case I think the Captain had nominated a departure alternate and knew he could meet the required gradients single engine. The first part of the departure has to be completed VFR to a certain point then the rest IMC if conditions dictate.
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Captain link hog, you come across like a complete dick, probably never been into queenstown. Your comment helps no one except you and your ego... As far as I am aware it has never been PAC Bro as you call it so dont degrade a good company and place to work with some half-cocked idea of what my or may not have been damaged...
I'm guessing that you work at nsn... Got your blinkers on and all...
Everyone can do the perfect job looking back on it.
I'm guessing that you work at nsn... Got your blinkers on and all...
Everyone can do the perfect job looking back on it.
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Funny thing is, you can be legal with viz, time prior to ect, but at the same time on two consecutive days, it will be completely different with cloud Vs clear, let alone snow showers in the vicinity... Or whatever...
It always looks worse from down the back looking sideways to the flight path.
It always looks worse from down the back looking sideways to the flight path.
It always looks worse from down the back looking sideways to the flight path.
I've departed in severe CAVOK whilst the control tower was shrouded in fog. Things like that will be deemed to risky in the future if this sort of trend continues.
The Judges statement has dire consequences on decision making in aviation unfortunately. Aviation Law is so bad that you couldn't take off half the time due to their being some conflicting law you could break.
Where to from here?
Last edited by neville_nobody; 27th Mar 2013 at 02:23.
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"The Judges statement has dire consequences on decision making in aviation unfortunately. Aviation Law is so bad that you couldn't take off half the time due to their being some conflicting law you could break."
Such as? I certainly try not to break the law every time I take off. I've said it before, but this is below the threshold of a conviction for me, but still pretty untidy. We cannot expect no repercussions from our decisions. He knew the cut-off time, knew he was after it, and took off anyway. Whether you think the law is an ass or not, you need to follow it. Want it changed, lobby your MP, don't start a revolution from the front seat of a 737.
Such as? I certainly try not to break the law every time I take off. I've said it before, but this is below the threshold of a conviction for me, but still pretty untidy. We cannot expect no repercussions from our decisions. He knew the cut-off time, knew he was after it, and took off anyway. Whether you think the law is an ass or not, you need to follow it. Want it changed, lobby your MP, don't start a revolution from the front seat of a 737.
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Yep, you pretty much won't take off now. I guess there is not really much space left for judgement now. I can just imagine sitting on the gate at ZQN and saying, well, we have 40 min before dark, we are ready for pushback, now have we broken any rules, lets just check them all just to be sure... Oh ****, now it's to late and we must overnight. Lets wait till a cavok day to depart just in case a row30ite with their video running makes a comment that could sink me...
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Ahh, the same old debate. The company exposition mandates it. CAA has approved the exposition as the way that the airline will comply with the law, ergo, the pilot must follow the manual. I am not a lawyer, but a bunch of lawyers and a judge in Queenstown have agreed that this is the case. If not, what other inconvenient items in your company manuals can you decide to ignore?
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I'm not saying to ignore company manuals Offy, they are a guiding document. But crews in every airline every day brief out of STANDARD Operating Procedures to more effectively (or be actually able to) deal with situations, weather etc they face, they may be very minor or more involved. Every manual I have ever seen has some kind of a paragraph covering the crews responsibilty to do this. That's why they are SOPs and not laws. Citing the opinions of lawyers and a judge with limited aviation knowledge as cornerstones of operational prudence for the entire industry does nothing for your case. I sadly admit however that your view is the one pilots may well need to consider in the future-and that is a threat.
Many things in aviation are not black and white, the shades of grey are negotiated by experience, common sense and creating a plan. I have many times been surprised at ZQN how much better the conditions are from the air than on the ground.
If you cannot see how the Judge's decision will have an adverse effect to some extent on flight safety, you must have missed the CRM/TEM/Decision Making revolution.
Good luck with your admittance to the bar exam, being Pilot In Command is not always so clear cut.
Many things in aviation are not black and white, the shades of grey are negotiated by experience, common sense and creating a plan. I have many times been surprised at ZQN how much better the conditions are from the air than on the ground.
If you cannot see how the Judge's decision will have an adverse effect to some extent on flight safety, you must have missed the CRM/TEM/Decision Making revolution.
Good luck with your admittance to the bar exam, being Pilot In Command is not always so clear cut.
Last edited by Capt. On Heat; 27th Mar 2013 at 04:53.
We cannot expect no repercussions from our decisions. He knew the cut-off time, knew he was after it, and took off anyway. Whether you think the law is an ass or not, you need to follow it.
I guess it would depend how you define departed and the Judge seems to believe that a departure alternate is irrelevant......how, I don't know.
Is departed off blocks/rotate/out of the circuit/or established outbound on the radial outside of 5 NM?
Herein lies the problem. You now have a pile of books that you can be prosecuted by which one is right?
Last edited by neville_nobody; 27th Mar 2013 at 05:06.
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Pilot competent: witness testimony | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
Captain Stuart Julian, who has more than 13,000 hours' flying experience, told the Queenstown District Court yesterday that despite confusion among the crew, weather conditions and cockpit warnings, the pilot passed a test used by air-pilot examiners - "Would I put my daughter on that flight? " - a measure he said was used to assess whether a pilot was competent.
Prosecution lawyer Fletcher Pilditch, at the end of his cross-examination of Capt Julian, asked whether he would "still put your daughter on that flight".
"Yes, I would," Capt Julian replied.
Pacific Blue pilot sentenced | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
He must undertake extensive retraining, to be overseen by Air New Zealand captain and expert witness in the case Stu Julian.
"There was an arrogance in that your experience and abilities would overcome rules of law," Judge [Kevin] Phillips says.
So Judge Phillips doesn't like Roderick Gunn. He likes Stuart Julian, but he didn't believe him, at least not enough to cross CAA on a technicality.
Judge Michael Behrens QC understands technicalities:
Drink-driving case against lawyer dismissed - National - NZ Herald News
Captain Stuart Julian, who has more than 13,000 hours' flying experience, told the Queenstown District Court yesterday that despite confusion among the crew, weather conditions and cockpit warnings, the pilot passed a test used by air-pilot examiners - "Would I put my daughter on that flight? " - a measure he said was used to assess whether a pilot was competent.
Prosecution lawyer Fletcher Pilditch, at the end of his cross-examination of Capt Julian, asked whether he would "still put your daughter on that flight".
"Yes, I would," Capt Julian replied.
Pacific Blue pilot sentenced | Otago Daily Times Online News : Otago, South Island, New Zealand & International News
He must undertake extensive retraining, to be overseen by Air New Zealand captain and expert witness in the case Stu Julian.
"There was an arrogance in that your experience and abilities would overcome rules of law," Judge [Kevin] Phillips says.
So Judge Phillips doesn't like Roderick Gunn. He likes Stuart Julian, but he didn't believe him, at least not enough to cross CAA on a technicality.
Judge Michael Behrens QC understands technicalities:
Drink-driving case against lawyer dismissed - National - NZ Herald News
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"Can-do" attitude...
This guy had the "can-do" attitude and is going to pay the price, the same as the RNZAF is going to hang a guy for the "can-do" attitude.
"Don't turn can-do into doo-doo."
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Check this, love the bit were Cpt Hot Rod smiling after coping a massive 5k
Fine! Probably not that happy he has to go back to work for after been stood down on full pay but I see the NZ ALPA guy was ther to give him a pat on the back for a job well done
Convicted pilot still able to fly in NZ - Story - NZ News - 3 News
Inverted, don't mean to dis your company I'll leve Q town to the experts
And good luck with your negotions must suck been the last pilot group in NZ to be on indervidual contracts getting less than half your parent company pays their pilot group on same Aircraft & routes mind you pay peanuts get arr this?
Party-prone aviator loses bid to overturn sacking - National - NZ Herald News
Fine! Probably not that happy he has to go back to work for after been stood down on full pay but I see the NZ ALPA guy was ther to give him a pat on the back for a job well done
Convicted pilot still able to fly in NZ - Story - NZ News - 3 News
Inverted, don't mean to dis your company I'll leve Q town to the experts
And good luck with your negotions must suck been the last pilot group in NZ to be on indervidual contracts getting less than half your parent company pays their pilot group on same Aircraft & routes mind you pay peanuts get arr this?
Party-prone aviator loses bid to overturn sacking - National - NZ Herald News
Last edited by Cpt Link Hog; 27th Mar 2013 at 10:09.
This guy had the "can-do" attitude and is going to pay the price, the same as the RNZAF is going to hang a guy for the "can-do" attitude.
This off the Air New Zealand recruitment website:
Your answers suggest you're ready for the challenges that we will throw at you and that 'Can Do' means the same to you as it does to us. We need people like you - solutions focused with the attitude to help others without being asked. We think you would thrive in our environment as your answers suggest you will be willing to think on your feet and tackle just about anything that comes your way. We feel the fact that tasks and objectives are not always clear and straightforward will not concern you and the fact that our industry demands that no two days are the same will keep you challenged. The pace and pressure here means adapting to challenges with working hours and shift patterns often changing to meet business needs. Our people need to have unlimited enthusiasm for customers and are often put in pressurised situations, sometimes with limited resources. We feel that you have the can do attitude suited to our business.
Can Do!
Get stuck in and make it happen
Is about having a solutions focus when problems arise. A can-do, not a make-do attitude.
Get stuck in and make it happen
Is about having a solutions focus when problems arise. A can-do, not a make-do attitude.
Last edited by Gate_15L; 27th Mar 2013 at 10:03.
Capt Link Hog..
1/Firstly learn to f#ck!ng spell.
2/
Just like the eggs at Link that managed to cook how many engines now?
3/
They're still getting paid more than you... pi!!ock...
1/Firstly learn to f#ck!ng spell.
2/
sure he was not impressed sum Egg from Pac bro/virgin Austrila Nz pty ltd or what ever they call it F;$king it up not to mention damage to the Virgin brand itself .
3/
And good luck with your negotions must suck been the last pilot group in NZ to be on indervidual contracts getting less than half your parent company pays their pilot group on same Aircraft & routes mind you pay peanuts get arr this?
Last edited by Gate_15L; 27th Mar 2013 at 10:10.
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And why would it suck to be on an individual contract in nz, and actually not half the AUSTALIAN company. Last time I checked we were in nz. Yeah, the f/o's at vanz im sure are pissed, most doing about 30-50 hrs/mth on mid 90k really sucks, oh and the 9 given but in reality 12-14 days off per 28 would suggest that it aint that bad.
Party boy was a knob... No real loss to the company there, yep the air nsn boys that blew what, 7 engines in the dash...well done. Thee is a difference between a screw up- re cooking engine and taking off with cargo doors not locked and making a decision like was the case with ZQN, whether it was the right one or not...
Party boy was a knob... No real loss to the company there, yep the air nsn boys that blew what, 7 engines in the dash...well done. Thee is a difference between a screw up- re cooking engine and taking off with cargo doors not locked and making a decision like was the case with ZQN, whether it was the right one or not...
