BNE Full Body Scanner.
Lets be honest here for a moment. The whole gripe is that you, as tech or cabin crew have to be screened whereas others who have access to aircraft and or sterile areas do not.
There is one side saying that crews should not be screened. The other is saying that everyone and everything going into a secure area and/or aircraft should be screened. I would suggest the later will create more problems than it solves.
There is one side saying that crews should not be screened. The other is saying that everyone and everything going into a secure area and/or aircraft should be screened. I would suggest the later will create more problems than it solves.
Last edited by YPJT; 4th Mar 2013 at 02:48.
Yep walking with an engineer to the Airbus.
I go through the screening and get ETD screening, hand luggage screening, full metal detectors, body scanning.
He is waiting in the flight deck when I get there after walking airside and up the aerobridge stairs.
When I worked for a smaller airline I'd give the caterers my lunch and water bottle for international flights and they'd take it and place it on my aeroplane so it wasn't confiscated through security.
Silly system we work in.....
I go through the screening and get ETD screening, hand luggage screening, full metal detectors, body scanning.
He is waiting in the flight deck when I get there after walking airside and up the aerobridge stairs.
When I worked for a smaller airline I'd give the caterers my lunch and water bottle for international flights and they'd take it and place it on my aeroplane so it wasn't confiscated through security.
Silly system we work in.....
I also don't get why guys like YPJT have such strong opinions on this subject when they are a bloody flight instructor working at Jandakot! (At least if memory serves me correctly).
When you work at the coal face, see cleaners, rampies, engineers, ground staff all going in and out of the sterile area and ramp all daylong via the aerobridge you realise the whole system is a farce.
It's just visible security to make the punters feel like the government is doing something proactive (although realistically reactive).
When you work at the coal face, see cleaners, rampies, engineers, ground staff all going in and out of the sterile area and ramp all daylong via the aerobridge you realise the whole system is a farce.
It's just visible security to make the punters feel like the government is doing something proactive (although realistically reactive).
I also don't get why guys like YPJT have such strong opinions on this subject when they are a bloody flight instructor working at Jandakot! (At least if memory serves me correctly).
Read my previous post on 03 March particularly the last paragraph. About all you will achieve prattling on here is an ulcer and no real change.
digger . . . .. .you'd be better off leaving the commentary to those who have been directly subject to the farce for years now. To talk of pissing contests only shows you up in a poor light. And lacking in respect. However familiar you may be with the minutia of the act, the orders and every skerrick of the legislation.
REPEAT . . Nothing, but nothing, can save us from the lunatic fringe, the smartest of them vs the smartest your men can deploy . . no contest.
REPEAT . . Nothing, but nothing, can save us from the lunatic fringe, the smartest of them vs the smartest your men can deploy . . no contest.
Last edited by Fantome; 4th Mar 2013 at 18:13.
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Nothing spreads an infection like security around the world faster than "security." It's quicker than AIDS, SARS, and the flue virus. But unlike those viruses, it remains unchanged during its journey. The bullsh!t peddled by the onastic cretins responsible for its reproduction are almost proud of its creed. Wherever it is thrust down the neck (or up the ar5e) of the innocent, it's justification remains the same, but just as pointless.
When will the t055ers responsible for its existence realise they are p!55ing up the wrong tree?
PM
When will the t055ers responsible for its existence realise they are p!55ing up the wrong tree?
PM
On a recent trip to Hawaii, we went through the usual double screening at SY before departure. When I asked the security guard why the second screening was necessary, he said that this is what the US requires for all flights travelling there. The funny thing is, in the US they screen once and it is pretty much the same as the initial screening at SY.
Of course it could be an uninformed guard answering me, but it isn't the first time I've received that answer.
From a layman's perspective, this makes no sense whatsoever. Either they need it or they don't. And in the US they do a LOT better job of the customer service side that's for sure. Always incredibly friendly and respectful.
There were at least a dozen security personnel present at SY with just 3 of them doing the screening. The rest were just standing around chatting. What a bloody waste of money.
And having travelled internationally over the past couple of years with a child, the incredible insensitivity of the screeening staff is mind boggling. Particularly when they want you to wake a sleeping 6 month old baby as he had to patted down. Next time through they said no need for the pat down. WTF???
They way I see it, nobody is going to take the law makers seriously unless they are consistent at EVERY port, and there at least appears to be some reasoning behind what they are doing.
As for screening crew, what if they do have half a kilo of Semtex strapped to their colon? If a crew member wants to take the aircraft down, all they would need to do is use the crash axe on the rest of the crew and lean on the yoke. Hasn't that been done before?
Rant over...
Flyer
Of course it could be an uninformed guard answering me, but it isn't the first time I've received that answer.
From a layman's perspective, this makes no sense whatsoever. Either they need it or they don't. And in the US they do a LOT better job of the customer service side that's for sure. Always incredibly friendly and respectful.
There were at least a dozen security personnel present at SY with just 3 of them doing the screening. The rest were just standing around chatting. What a bloody waste of money.
And having travelled internationally over the past couple of years with a child, the incredible insensitivity of the screeening staff is mind boggling. Particularly when they want you to wake a sleeping 6 month old baby as he had to patted down. Next time through they said no need for the pat down. WTF???
They way I see it, nobody is going to take the law makers seriously unless they are consistent at EVERY port, and there at least appears to be some reasoning behind what they are doing.
As for screening crew, what if they do have half a kilo of Semtex strapped to their colon? If a crew member wants to take the aircraft down, all they would need to do is use the crash axe on the rest of the crew and lean on the yoke. Hasn't that been done before?
Rant over...
Flyer
Those who are confused as to what a "sterile area" actually is, generally;
Airside is not a sterile area.
The aircraft is not a sterile area.
The international disembarking aerobridge and areas leading to customs and the arrivals hall are not sterile. (Some airlines still use metal cutlery and the TSA wannabes (Aussie security are positively delightful to deal with compared to their Yank counterparts...half even know how to smile!) would have kittens if they knew there was a metal fork within throwing distance of a screening point.)
Transiting pax pass back into the sterile area and need to be rescreened.
Domestic aerobridges (and the flights, crashaxes notwithstanding
) are sterile.
The sterile area is only the transition area between landside and airside where pax are roaming "freely". Everyone is screened (the security as well on entering the area) with the exception of AFP and identified on-duty police.
The problem is actually not the aircraft, it is carrying prohibited items (and possibly losing them) in the sterile area.
This is not an all inclusive, exhaustive definition, but is purely meant to help the commonly misunderstood purpose of this area. (ie. if you want to bignote youslf by picking it apart, you can make like a bird and flock off.) i do know what I'm talking about, I worked at BN Intenational for 18 months
(it paid bills, I hated it, preferred guarding the US bound QF and SQ aircraft airside where I didn't have to deal with pax).
Agree the full body scan is excessive, like the pat down option, however last time I asked for this in the US, the fcuknut tried to tell me it wasn't an option until I showed him his own regs. They are tools over there.
Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons, from Aust. Transport Security Regs 2005;
But try quoting that to the average screener.
Airside is not a sterile area.
The aircraft is not a sterile area.
The international disembarking aerobridge and areas leading to customs and the arrivals hall are not sterile. (Some airlines still use metal cutlery and the TSA wannabes (Aussie security are positively delightful to deal with compared to their Yank counterparts...half even know how to smile!) would have kittens if they knew there was a metal fork within throwing distance of a screening point.)
Transiting pax pass back into the sterile area and need to be rescreened.
Domestic aerobridges (and the flights, crashaxes notwithstanding
) are sterile.The sterile area is only the transition area between landside and airside where pax are roaming "freely". Everyone is screened (the security as well on entering the area) with the exception of AFP and identified on-duty police.
The problem is actually not the aircraft, it is carrying prohibited items (and possibly losing them) in the sterile area.
This is not an all inclusive, exhaustive definition, but is purely meant to help the commonly misunderstood purpose of this area. (ie. if you want to bignote youslf by picking it apart, you can make like a bird and flock off.) i do know what I'm talking about, I worked at BN Intenational for 18 months
(it paid bills, I hated it, preferred guarding the US bound QF and SQ aircraft airside where I didn't have to deal with pax).Agree the full body scan is excessive, like the pat down option, however last time I asked for this in the US, the fcuknut tried to tell me it wasn't an option until I showed him his own regs. They are tools over there.
Just to throw the cat amongst the pidgeons, from Aust. Transport Security Regs 2005;
Division 4.3
4.61 Aviation industry participants authorised to have prohibited items in possession in sterile areas
(1) An aviation industry participant is authorised to have a prohibited item in its possession in the sterile area if:
(a) the item is a tool of trade; and
(b) the aviation industry participant takes reasonable precautions to ensure that the item remains under its control.
(2) For paragraph (1) (a), something is a tool of trade if the relevant aviation industry participant requires it for a lawful purpose.
4.61 Aviation industry participants authorised to have prohibited items in possession in sterile areas
(1) An aviation industry participant is authorised to have a prohibited item in its possession in the sterile area if:
(a) the item is a tool of trade; and
(b) the aviation industry participant takes reasonable precautions to ensure that the item remains under its control.
(2) For paragraph (1) (a), something is a tool of trade if the relevant aviation industry participant requires it for a lawful purpose.
The problem is actually not the aircraft, it is carrying prohibited items (and possibly losing them) in the sterile area.
Sterile areas do not fly.
I always had it in the back of my mind that it was not about keeping the aircraft "sterile" but to keep a group of people build an empire within the public "service" and giving the traveling public a false sense of "security"
I guess for me it was when loading passengers baggage into the baggage area of WWII, (yes some pilots do load their own aircraft) I found various items, including dangerous goods, that should have been removed from the passenger's baggage at the screening.
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The security drives all frequent travellers to distraction, especially when you observe first-hand how laughably ineffective it is (many examples noted in this thread but nothing more telling than a pack of jobsworths lolly-gagging about their weekend, boyfriends or whatever and ignoring the screening equipment). Sadly, it's largely a self-perpetuating security myth bolsted by the financial gains that are made by the contractors et al.
Here at Perth, the largely incoherent and under-employed jobsworths make the odd facile attempt at screening, usually picking the easiest and least likely targets. (Indeed, our particular jobsworths often look like they should be on the other end of the screening process).
I've often though that some sensible person should start 'take your chance' airline, raise the fingers of derision to the regulators, and appeal to the likes of me. If they had a halfway decent bubbly in the business cabin, I'd be in there like a shot.
Here at Perth, the largely incoherent and under-employed jobsworths make the odd facile attempt at screening, usually picking the easiest and least likely targets. (Indeed, our particular jobsworths often look like they should be on the other end of the screening process).
I've often though that some sensible person should start 'take your chance' airline, raise the fingers of derision to the regulators, and appeal to the likes of me. If they had a halfway decent bubbly in the business cabin, I'd be in there like a shot.
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While the first round of Body Scanners are known to be unsafe as someone mentioned earlier. Which type is the one in BNE?
I found some articles re the Millimetre Wave Scanners which seems just as bad.
HERE
HERE2
Now after reading the above, here is what is published by CASA
CASA info
No choice but to go through them?...I think reading the above might make you do a real hard think on what you will do...
I found some articles re the Millimetre Wave Scanners which seems just as bad.
HERE
HERE2
Now after reading the above, here is what is published by CASA
CASA info
No choice but to go through them?...I think reading the above might make you do a real hard think on what you will do...
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US safety rules relaxed: Pocket knives and sports equipment currently
banned on US flights will be allowed back in aircraft cabins, the US
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced yesterday.
Passengers will be able to carry knives with folding blades 6cm or shorter,
as well as sporting goods such as golf clubs, hockey clubs, and
novelty-sized baseball bats, the federal agency said.
banned on US flights will be allowed back in aircraft cabins, the US
Transportation Security Administration (TSA) announced yesterday.
Passengers will be able to carry knives with folding blades 6cm or shorter,
as well as sporting goods such as golf clubs, hockey clubs, and
novelty-sized baseball bats, the federal agency said.
'take your chance' airline
Hence screening is required on any aeroplane big enough to cause mischief.
P.S
I would not have a problem with screening if everybody working airside was subjected to it. I have a problem when it's not consistent and open to interpretation by individual screeners.
Case in point, I went through body screening and was told to remove my wings, bars, pens, asic, tie, belt, shoes, watch etc etc.
I asked where it was written that I was required to do that? He in his infinate wisdom said so he wouldn't get any false paints on the picture. I told him I would not be complying with his instructions and he can screen me as is or not at all. The supervisor intervened and asked to remove my pen and watch. I complied and went through.
What a farce this system is......
Last edited by The Green Goblin; 6th Mar 2013 at 22:51.
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While 'take your chance' was tongue-in-cheek, the moment you start being willing to argue minutiae rather than tackle the substantive issue, we're exactly where the terrorists and profiteers want us.
While Albo's Circus runs out of control, the Yanks start relaxing their security measures.
TSA to allow pocket knives on US flights
Pocket knives and sports equipment -- banned on US flights since the September 11, 2001 attacks -- are to be allowed back in aircraft cabins, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) said Tuesday.
Passengers will be able to carry knives with folding blades 2.36 inches (6 centimeters) or shorter, as well as sporting goods such as golf clubs, hockey clubs, and novelty-sized baseball bats, the federal agency said.
TSA chief John Pistole said the new guidelines, which come into effect on April 25, would bring US security regulations into line with international standards.
Among the sporting goods to be allowed as carry-on baggage will be billiard cues, ski poles, hockey sticks, lacrosse sticks and up to two golf clubs, Pistole said.
Baseball bats measuring 24 inches (60 centimeters) or shorter and weighing no more than 24 ounces (680 grammes) will also be permitted.
"This is part of an overall risk-based security approach, which allows Transportation Security Officers to better focus their efforts on finding higher threat items such as explosives," Pistole said.
Source : AFP
TSA to allow pocket knives on US flights
Pocket knives and sports equipment -- banned on US flights since the September 11, 2001 attacks -- are to be allowed back in aircraft cabins, the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) said Tuesday.
Passengers will be able to carry knives with folding blades 2.36 inches (6 centimeters) or shorter, as well as sporting goods such as golf clubs, hockey clubs, and novelty-sized baseball bats, the federal agency said.
TSA chief John Pistole said the new guidelines, which come into effect on April 25, would bring US security regulations into line with international standards.
Among the sporting goods to be allowed as carry-on baggage will be billiard cues, ski poles, hockey sticks, lacrosse sticks and up to two golf clubs, Pistole said.
Baseball bats measuring 24 inches (60 centimeters) or shorter and weighing no more than 24 ounces (680 grammes) will also be permitted.
"This is part of an overall risk-based security approach, which allows Transportation Security Officers to better focus their efforts on finding higher threat items such as explosives," Pistole said.
Source : AFP
At the end of the day it is Government that makes the regulations that dictate screening procedures and equipment. The Airports have to implement them. The staff at the screening points have to do it. You don't like it and the Airports would far rather not have to deal with it. There's no point in ranting and raving about BNE, SYD or MEL being a*seholes when they are as much over a barrel as you are. Fail to comply and they cop flak too.
Traffic, it's the implementation at each airport which varies.
Just as a good CSM might set the tone of the rest of her/his crew, so it is at different airports. Some carry on like little Hitlers and make up the most draconian interpretation of the rules whilst others are able to find a smile and still do a thorough and safe job.
You should get about a bit more if you haven't seen this in action.
Just as a good CSM might set the tone of the rest of her/his crew, so it is at different airports. Some carry on like little Hitlers and make up the most draconian interpretation of the rules whilst others are able to find a smile and still do a thorough and safe job.
You should get about a bit more if you haven't seen this in action.
Last edited by Mud Skipper; 7th Mar 2013 at 19:37.