SE QLD storms and why we evacuate the tarmac
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A quote from a lightning awareness doucument -
'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'
Also -
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/lightning...ing-safety.pdf
Two excerpts from the document -
'Lightning often strikes outside the area of heavy rain and may strike as far as 10 miles from any rainfall.'
'Some people were struck because they went back outside too soon. Stay inside a safe building or vehicle for at least 30 minutes after you hear the last thunder clap.'
I have witnessed a lightning strike approximately 10 miles ahead of a storm. It was a very fine bolt that hit the ground just over the back fence. I shot inside as fast as I could move! There was no thunder associated with the bolt & no cloud in the sky except for the storm clouds in the distance. I could hear thunder from the distant storm. This is possibly why people get struck on golf courses & the beach. They think that the storm is too far away to be a problem.
'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'
Also -
http://www.nws.noaa.gov/os/lightning...ing-safety.pdf
Two excerpts from the document -
'Lightning often strikes outside the area of heavy rain and may strike as far as 10 miles from any rainfall.'
'Some people were struck because they went back outside too soon. Stay inside a safe building or vehicle for at least 30 minutes after you hear the last thunder clap.'
I have witnessed a lightning strike approximately 10 miles ahead of a storm. It was a very fine bolt that hit the ground just over the back fence. I shot inside as fast as I could move! There was no thunder associated with the bolt & no cloud in the sky except for the storm clouds in the distance. I could hear thunder from the distant storm. This is possibly why people get struck on golf courses & the beach. They think that the storm is too far away to be a problem.
Last edited by Oakape; 19th Nov 2012 at 20:41.
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30 mins stuck in the aircraft with pax.............big deal
We had one day where they waited as long as the flight had just taken but at least everyone walked off safely and went home at the end of the day.
I would rather wait and be alive at the end of my shift and so would my family so even though your pax might be getting annoyed it is also their safety we care about.
Are you going to explain to the coroner why people were allowed to walk on tarmac and got killed by a lightning strike.
Safety before schedule and patience from the crew is appreciated and remember we are all trying to achieve the same thing so hassling us won't hasten the decision.
We had one day where they waited as long as the flight had just taken but at least everyone walked off safely and went home at the end of the day.
I would rather wait and be alive at the end of my shift and so would my family so even though your pax might be getting annoyed it is also their safety we care about.
Are you going to explain to the coroner why people were allowed to walk on tarmac and got killed by a lightning strike.
Safety before schedule and patience from the crew is appreciated and remember we are all trying to achieve the same thing so hassling us won't hasten the decision.
I was standing on ground right of aircraft facing.
The lightning hit the ground well to the rear of the aircraft.
The angle of the shot gives the wrong impression, just as well.
What would happen to it if it was hit when on the ground?
The lightning hit the ground well to the rear of the aircraft.
The angle of the shot gives the wrong impression, just as well.
What would happen to it if it was hit when on the ground?
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Thanks to bloggs and lurker.
Now imagine being plugged into a headset where the hit grounded on the RHS of the nose.
Now imagine being plugged into a headset where the hit grounded on the RHS of the nose.
Last edited by ampclamp; 19th Nov 2012 at 23:52.
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Are all these electric storms common in Queensland or fairly recent phenomena due to climate change? I am not familiar with weather in the Australian region.
They have been like this since long before the AGW idiots got into the media. In fact it is only recently that the weather is more like it was 40+ years ago.
People have very short memories ......Go figure!
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Pressure
I have personally witnessed 'operator pressure including threats' to ramp staff who leave the tarmac during operational shutdown periods. This would never have occurred a few year ago. It is a joke how much pressure and intimidation is being placed on staff.
I would like to see executive management stood on the tarmac while lightning strikes around them.
I would like to see executive management stood on the tarmac while lightning strikes around them.
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Oakape - In the last fortnight players at the Thirlstane Golf Club near Devonport Tassie were singed by lightning and a few needed medical attention and lost facial hair, which some of the ladies were pleased about.
I will personally admit to being stupid enough to continue working through turnarounds during electrical storms.
Older and allegedly wiser, I acknowledge it was running with scissors. Dumb!
If you are on a golf course during a particularly violent thunderstorm the safest thing you can do is to stand at the highest point on the course and hold a one iron above your head.
Rationalle?
Even God can't hit a one iron
Best all
EWL
I will personally admit to being stupid enough to continue working through turnarounds during electrical storms.
Older and allegedly wiser, I acknowledge it was running with scissors. Dumb!
If you are on a golf course during a particularly violent thunderstorm the safest thing you can do is to stand at the highest point on the course and hold a one iron above your head.
Rationalle?
Even God can't hit a one iron
Best all
EWL
Last edited by Eastwest Loco; 22nd Nov 2012 at 12:30.
It's very tempting to just duck out on the tarmac and wave an aircraft on the gate, or start one up.
But I remember the day at high school when a bunch of guys got hit while sheltering under a tree in the quad.
http://www.wintec.ac.nz/mediaarts/st...Thankfully.pdf
But I remember the day at high school when a bunch of guys got hit while sheltering under a tree in the quad.
http://www.wintec.ac.nz/mediaarts/st...Thankfully.pdf
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For some geological reason, some areas are subject to lightning strikes more than others. Singapore's Seleta airport is one of them.
At times of thunderstorms, they close the hangar doors and discourage staff from going outside. Not just because of the rainstorms, but mainly due to lightning strikes. I was there when several lightning strikes occurred and staff told me that it was common. A bit unnerving if you are near the hangar door.
A month later, it was also unnerving to have a rainstorm occurring on approach to Seleta after that.
I guess we all have our "war stories"
At times of thunderstorms, they close the hangar doors and discourage staff from going outside. Not just because of the rainstorms, but mainly due to lightning strikes. I was there when several lightning strikes occurred and staff told me that it was common. A bit unnerving if you are near the hangar door.
A month later, it was also unnerving to have a rainstorm occurring on approach to Seleta after that.
I guess we all have our "war stories"
Last edited by AEROMEDIC; 22nd Nov 2012 at 21:52.
EWL said:
Was it the ladies who lost their facial hair? I'll bet the ladies partners were pleased about that! 
In the last fortnight players at the Thirlstane Golf Club near Devonport Tassie were singed by lightning and a few needed medical attention and lost facial hair, which some of the ladies were pleased about.
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Saved a bucketload for the hubbies SIUYA. I did elude to facial hair loss - and it was on ladies.
No industrial equipment needed in the next visit to the alleged beauty parlour/panel shop.
I shouldn't be so mean though. The members who play Thirlstane are a lovely bunch and it is a great 9 hole course with some challenging holes.
One doesn't mess with electrical storms - this one gave no notice and grounded right there as a 1st port of call.
That is why we must be very wary, but that 1st zap can't be predicted.
Hiya Gaunty
Best all
EWL
No industrial equipment needed in the next visit to the alleged beauty parlour/panel shop.
I shouldn't be so mean though. The members who play Thirlstane are a lovely bunch and it is a great 9 hole course with some challenging holes.
One doesn't mess with electrical storms - this one gave no notice and grounded right there as a 1st port of call.
That is why we must be very wary, but that 1st zap can't be predicted.
Hiya Gaunty
Best all
EWL
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Aeromedic
Changi Airport and for that matter to whole of Singapore is lightning prone.
And no the tarmac at Changi never closes for lightning or anything else for that matter. Life is cheap, slavery is alive and well !
GLTA !
And no the tarmac at Changi never closes for lightning or anything else for that matter. Life is cheap, slavery is alive and well !
GLTA !
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A quote from a lightning awareness doucument -
'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'
'Unlike the far more common "negative" lightning, positive lightning occurs when a positive charge is carried by the top of the clouds (generally anvil clouds) rather than the ground. Generally, this causes the leader arc to form in the anvil of the cumulonimbus and travel horizontally for several miles before veering down to meet the negatively charged streamer rising from the ground. The bolt can strike anywhere within several miles of the anvil of the thunderstorm, often in areas experiencing clear or only slightly cloudy skies; they are also known as "bolts from the blue" for this reason. Positive lightning makes up less than 5% of all lightning strikes.'
Changi Airport and for that matter to whole of Singapore is lightning prone.And no the tarmac at Changi never closes for lightning or anything else for that matter. Life is cheap, slavery is alive and well !GLTA !
One of the issues also surrounding ramp shutdowns is for example this - If you are a QF rampie in say Brisbane, all weather 'calls' are made by Ops in SYD. The storm lights and sirens in BNE are activated by the BNE Ops guys, but permission to activate them has to come from SYD. They, in SYD, are monitoring a weather radar loop that is around 20 minutes behind real time. So when they see a storm cell with lightning strikes 20km west of the BNE airport, and it is travelling at 40 km/h the storm could in fact already be dropping bolts onto the airfield. I have observed this personally.
So in reality the system is flawed.
Nunc est bibendum
I thought BAC took care of the strobes in BNE these days? One out, all out?!?!? Same as in Sydney. When the lights are on, they're on all over the airfield.
This is different to Perth where quite famously a year or so ago QF ended up with the ramp clear- and legitimately due to multiple lightening strikes on the airfield- whilst the virgin ramp kept turning them around. QF had delays of aircraft on the ground of up to 8 hours. Word from the QF ops people in PER is that at one stage the VOZ ground handlers ventured back out (QF still off) only for a lightening strike in close proximity. They scurried back inside quick smart, waited 5 minutes and then were out again.
However, as you say oleo, the call was being made from Sydney on advice and live feed from PER BOM. The stupid thing was that PER had told Sydney multiple times to stop sending aircraft across to Perth due to the backlog but they didn't fully appreciate what was going on until about the four or five hour mark. By then it was all too late.
This is different to Perth where quite famously a year or so ago QF ended up with the ramp clear- and legitimately due to multiple lightening strikes on the airfield- whilst the virgin ramp kept turning them around. QF had delays of aircraft on the ground of up to 8 hours. Word from the QF ops people in PER is that at one stage the VOZ ground handlers ventured back out (QF still off) only for a lightening strike in close proximity. They scurried back inside quick smart, waited 5 minutes and then were out again.
However, as you say oleo, the call was being made from Sydney on advice and live feed from PER BOM. The stupid thing was that PER had told Sydney multiple times to stop sending aircraft across to Perth due to the backlog but they didn't fully appreciate what was going on until about the four or five hour mark. By then it was all too late.
