Will CASA suspend JQ for descending below MSA on approach?

[Mstr Caution]

I take your point around the tiger grounding.

Agreed on the regulatory oversight tho.

Having a back office SMS doesn't help at the time an excursion from flight path or procedure ocurrs.

Bit like saying our systems are safe cause we can learn from coronial inquiries.

[wheels_down]

Tiger was grounded because they broke the record for the highest amount of defects on a commercial fleet, with zero support behind the scenes. They didn't even have a safety dept.

I dont think its quite possible to get to the suspension level that Tiger did. Trust me!

[Keg]

n much the same way that an airline that has multiple engine failures,

Personally I think CASA was weak on this one. Given the systemic nature of the engine failures and the fact that QF couldn't fix it, I would have thought CASA would have been much more proactive. Had they done so, perhaps all the stupid decisions of Dixon, Joyce et al would have been put under the spot light.

fuel tanks being exhausted

Not sure on this one?

auto lands at Cat 1 only airports

When the weather drops below minima when an alternate wasn't forecast to be required and the aircraft didn't have a diversion port?

not to mention holding patterns below MSA

No excuses but mitigating factors. Broken air con and flight deck temp temp in excess of 38 degrees C for a 3 1/2 hour red eye flight.

and too low gear warnings

So in effect that you're claiming that these disparate events over a bunch of years (more than 5?) is the same as multiple stuff ups of go arounds (common thread of insufficient training, inexperienced crew, poor procedures, etc) and descending below published minimums?

[DirectAnywhere]

Fuel tank issue was a 737 PER-SYD.

Qantas flight low on fuel, reserves switched off [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

[Bankstown]

Nothing wrong with an auto land at a Cat 1 airport! Conducting one with the weather below the landing minima on the other hand......

[Lookleft]

The point of my post was that the mob mentality of grounding Jetstar each time they are in the papers because Tiger was grounded is based more on emotion than rational thinking. Any list of events that confirm why Jetstar should be grounded can be countered by events that have occurred to brand x that ,given a bias by the media, could be construed as reasonable grounds to "Tiger" it. BS has an agenda to push that goes back to the 27 ILS incident where he was proved wrong in his statement that the aircraft got to 39' with the gear up. I think that CASA should be paying more attention to Jetstar and the HC AOC end of aviation. Their focus on SMS audits is too narrow and I think that CASA employees should not be allowed to join an airline at least 2 years after leaving CASA.

[amos2]

So tell me, which runways in OZ are categorized Autoland?

[flying-spike]

Close your eyes and run across

"I think that CASA employees should not be allowed to join an airline at least 2 years after leaving CASA."
Mmmmmm, would the extra 2 years count towards long service?

If the two numpties I'm thinking of are the two numpties you're talking about CASA should have show-caused the airline for employing them.

[The Green Goblin]

So tell me, which runways in OZ are categorized Autoland?

Autolands are approved at every major capital city in Australia on certain runways with an ILS in Cat 1 or better conditions.

Jetstar have also recently received Cat 3 approval.

[amos2]

So, could you list them for me please GG?

[The Green Goblin]

Not my place to list them mate.

Having said that, any runway with an ILS is pretty much approved provided it has been tested and a successful autoland carried out prior.

Autolands are also required at certain intervals to keep the aircrafts operational approval.

If you work for an airline you will have a list in your operations manual with approved autoland ports.

If not, stop kicking the tyres and leave it there.

[Ollie Onion]

Got to go with GG here, there are at least a dozen runways in Oz authorised for Autolands. If you are talking about actual autoland runways along with Cat II or II authorisation then just YMML in Australia. I assume you know that Autoland authorisation can be independent of CAT III authorisation.

[amos2]

Well, if you can't answer that question GG, can you list the OZ runways that Jetstar have Cat 3 Autoland approvals for?

Perhaps someone else may have to help you out?

OO perhaps?

[big buddah]

Amos,
Cat3 and autoland are two different things!
You can do autoland without Cat2 or Cat3 & even do Cat2 without autoland not sure about Cat3????

They are completely independent of each other.
the only approved Cat2/3 at the moment is YMML.

[amos2]

So, now we're getting a little closer to the right answer!

Are you there, Keg?

Want to help them out?...I know you can!

But, why should you?

[The Green Goblin]

Amos I think you are clearly confused between a Cat 3b approach where an autoland is required and a regular autoland.

On a side note Jetstar have recent approval for Cat 3 approaches and all crew that take the low visibility simulator training have been trained to Cat 3b standards for some time.

Modern airliners with Cat 3 dual redundancy will autoland if you do not disconnect the autopilot on any ILS. All ILS approaches are configured Cat 3 dual regardless of approach category that you are operating too.

Melbourne at this stage is the only port at this stage that you can shoot a Cat 3 approach and autoland in anger.

However there is a large list of ports were you can shoot a cat 1 approach to the minima and autoland if you so desire.

[DirectAnywhere]

All very interesting, but what it has to do with the RNP approach in Queenstown is well and truly beyond me...

[Tidbinbilla]

Let's get back on topic: A Jetstar occurrence in N.Z.

If you want to chat about the differences between autoland and Cat 2/3 landings, please start another topic. However, it seems that has been clarified at least twice already on this thread. But someone has difficulty comprehending same

[Cactusjack]

More folly

NZCAA has nothing to do with it, they have no oversight on Jetstar New Zealand at all.

That is correct. Much the same way that TOLL has it's NZ registered 737's flying around Australia and CASA has no oversight rights whatsoever. A complete joke. If CASA wanted to look closer at the 737's they would have to at a minimum go and negotiate with their CAA counterparts in NZ. So you will find that the CAA doesn't get a very in-depth look at the NZ JQ operation.

If the two numpties I'm thinking of are the two numpties you're talking about
CASA should have show-caused the airline for employing them.

Very funny Flying Spike Milligan, and very true. However, a LCC operation sometimes attracts LCC quality staff which occurred in this case.Time to change the colour scheme from orange and silver to baby cack yellow or brown?

Wonder what Xenophon is thinking around about now? And I wonder how long the ATSB has been sitting on some of the investigations, or should I say how long the Minister has been sitting on the results, perhaps long enough for BB to enact 'operation exit' and bolt overseas to his new make-up venture?

[5coffee]

Ah media fluff around Queenstown again I think.

7300ft is back near the start of the RNP approach. So they were below profile on the approach. The pilots noticed it and fixed it. Quite possibly end of story. We will see.

QNH error maybe?

I certainly wouldn't be grounding aircraft just yet. Some people are a little over excited. :-)