Suspicion of being under the Influence
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Suspicion of being under the Influence
Hopefully this is incorrect. Equally if it is, the Captain gets support that she may need.
Pilot removed from flight after alcohol claim
Date
August 6, 2012
Qantas is investigating a pilot.
A QANTAS captain was forced to relinquish the controls of a passenger jet last week just minutes before it was due to take off from Sydney Airport after cabin crew suspected she had been drinking alcohol before the flight.
Qantas has launched an investigation into the incident after the senior pilot recorded a positive reading for alcohol.
The captain has been withheld from operational duties on full pay, but the airline will not comment on what reading she gave or how soon before the flight she had been drinking.
The incident occurred last Monday as the aircraft was about to depart. Flight attendants on the Boeing 767-300, which can carry as many as 254 passengers, told the airline's flight operations managers they suspected the captain of the plane had been drinking.
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The twin-aisle aircraft had been pulled back from the domestic terminal and was moving towards a runway for take-off when Qantas management made the decision to stand down the captain from command of the plane.
The 767 returned to the domestic terminal where the captain was taken off the plane and a replacement pilot found.
It is rare for pilots to be removed from flying for breaching airline procedure. Qantas has a zero-tolerance to pilots recording an alcohol reading of any level. Fewer than 100 of Qantas' 2200 pilots are women.
The investigation into the captain's alcohol reading and removal last Monday is expected to take at least a month.
Qantas has informed Australia's air-safety regulator, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, of the incident. However, it is considered a matter for Qantas rather than the regulator because the testing of the captain was under the auspices of the airline's drug and alcohol management plan.
If it is determined to be a one-off incident, a pilot would be expected to undergo counselling and later a medical assessment to determine whether they are fit to fly.
But if it is a long-term problem, the pilot would be subjected to a rehabilitation program and suspended from duties.
CASA has been conducting random breath tests of pilots, flight attendants and ground crews at airports since 2008. The rate of positive tests is understood to be low.
A Qantas spokesman confirmed a captain had been ''withheld from service for administrative reasons'' last week but he declined to comment further because the matter was under investigation.
A spokesman for CASA said yesterday it would not comment on any specific drug and alcohol testing carried out by an airline. ''Anyone found to be affected by alcohol or drugs while performing, or when they are available to perform, safety-sensitive aviation activities will automatically be suspended from duties,'' he said.
''They are not able to return to duty until they have been medically assessed, undergone rehabilitation if appropriate and given a medical clearance.''
Read more: Pilot removed from flight after alcohol claim
Pilot removed from flight after alcohol claim
Date
August 6, 2012
Qantas is investigating a pilot.
A QANTAS captain was forced to relinquish the controls of a passenger jet last week just minutes before it was due to take off from Sydney Airport after cabin crew suspected she had been drinking alcohol before the flight.
Qantas has launched an investigation into the incident after the senior pilot recorded a positive reading for alcohol.
The captain has been withheld from operational duties on full pay, but the airline will not comment on what reading she gave or how soon before the flight she had been drinking.
The incident occurred last Monday as the aircraft was about to depart. Flight attendants on the Boeing 767-300, which can carry as many as 254 passengers, told the airline's flight operations managers they suspected the captain of the plane had been drinking.
Advertisement
The twin-aisle aircraft had been pulled back from the domestic terminal and was moving towards a runway for take-off when Qantas management made the decision to stand down the captain from command of the plane.
The 767 returned to the domestic terminal where the captain was taken off the plane and a replacement pilot found.
It is rare for pilots to be removed from flying for breaching airline procedure. Qantas has a zero-tolerance to pilots recording an alcohol reading of any level. Fewer than 100 of Qantas' 2200 pilots are women.
The investigation into the captain's alcohol reading and removal last Monday is expected to take at least a month.
Qantas has informed Australia's air-safety regulator, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, of the incident. However, it is considered a matter for Qantas rather than the regulator because the testing of the captain was under the auspices of the airline's drug and alcohol management plan.
If it is determined to be a one-off incident, a pilot would be expected to undergo counselling and later a medical assessment to determine whether they are fit to fly.
But if it is a long-term problem, the pilot would be subjected to a rehabilitation program and suspended from duties.
CASA has been conducting random breath tests of pilots, flight attendants and ground crews at airports since 2008. The rate of positive tests is understood to be low.
A Qantas spokesman confirmed a captain had been ''withheld from service for administrative reasons'' last week but he declined to comment further because the matter was under investigation.
A spokesman for CASA said yesterday it would not comment on any specific drug and alcohol testing carried out by an airline. ''Anyone found to be affected by alcohol or drugs while performing, or when they are available to perform, safety-sensitive aviation activities will automatically be suspended from duties,'' he said.
''They are not able to return to duty until they have been medically assessed, undergone rehabilitation if appropriate and given a medical clearance.''
Read more: Pilot removed from flight after alcohol claim
Last edited by Yarra; 5th Aug 2012 at 16:18.
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I think the key phrase here right now is;
That is all that is known and prudence dictates that QF do what they have done.
Any speculation, IMHO, particularly considering the number of female captains on the 767 is so small, would be unprofessional.
after cabin crew suspected she had been drinking alcohol before the flight.
Any speculation, IMHO, particularly considering the number of female captains on the 767 is so small, would be unprofessional.
Last edited by Capt Kremin; 5th Aug 2012 at 22:23.
"The Age"this morning states explicitly that the pilot returned a positive reading. So, I don't think that bit is in dispute. We do not know the reading, so it could equally be the minimum threshold record-able as remnants of wine with dinner the night before (or mouthwash after breakfast) or swigging a hip flask as she walked on. Without getting do deep into semantics, it may be possible to record a positive reading, but still be competent, safe and legal.
But, the part that interests me is that CASA are quoted in the article saying its a matter for Qantas not CASA because the testing was done under the Qantas drug & alcohol test regime. Really? Exactly what does CASA see as its role? And where do they exhibit independence?
I also like the line saying the investigation will take a month. Is that because CASA needs 28 days to seek legal advice on what its role should be?
But, the part that interests me is that CASA are quoted in the article saying its a matter for Qantas not CASA because the testing was done under the Qantas drug & alcohol test regime. Really? Exactly what does CASA see as its role? And where do they exhibit independence?
I also like the line saying the investigation will take a month. Is that because CASA needs 28 days to seek legal advice on what its role should be?
Akro,
My basic understanding of this is that Qantas has a DAMP (Drug and Alcohol Management Plan) which CASA required them to implement . Therefore, by the pilot being subject to the requirements of the DAMP, they are being subject to the requirements of CASA, as well as Qantas.
My basic understanding of this is that Qantas has a DAMP (Drug and Alcohol Management Plan) which CASA required them to implement . Therefore, by the pilot being subject to the requirements of the DAMP, they are being subject to the requirements of CASA, as well as Qantas.
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No speculation please. To few of them, just support her, if you know her. No pilot would do this deliberately, (except those who ate TAA's famous trifle, and all smelt of alcohol,) that was quickly taken off the menu, I might add. One can only feel for this lass, and wonder what is happening in her life. Lets all back off.
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Well as a current F/O I've flown with almost all the female 767 Captains we have (I think bar one). This is quite a shock, as those I've flown with have been nothing but totally professional, and I might add a darn sight more pleasant to fly with than several blokes I've had to tolerate over the years.
I've also flown with a large variety of cabin crew, including on one occasion where a complaint (totally unrelated to alcohol - it was a "personality" issue - I think he lost his somewhere along the way to getting his command) about the Captain was passed through to me, managed very professionally by the crew, and ended up not causing any undue distress nor any impact on safety at all.
So I'm going to give everyone involved here plenty of leeway until the large number of blanks are properly filled in and we really know what transpired.
I've also flown with a large variety of cabin crew, including on one occasion where a complaint (totally unrelated to alcohol - it was a "personality" issue - I think he lost his somewhere along the way to getting his command) about the Captain was passed through to me, managed very professionally by the crew, and ended up not causing any undue distress nor any impact on safety at all.
So I'm going to give everyone involved here plenty of leeway until the large number of blanks are properly filled in and we really know what transpired.
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Having worked with a few of the 767 female pilots I have nothing but praise for them. Highly professional in my dealings with them and hope she is OK.
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If you know her enough to give her a call, please do so. She will need all the support from family and friends right now. It might have only been mouthwash, or some residue from a wine with dinner that particular night, whatever the cause, her life has been turned upside down. We don't know the circumstances, and sad it got into the press. Hopefully the AIPA will come in all bats swinging, and it turns out to be a storm in a teacup for the poor lass. Being on the committee of the AFAP for ten years I have seen what this can do to a bloke, let alone a girl. She is innocent till proven otherwise.
Some Baileys liquer choccys arrived in the office last christmas and they were very lovely, thank you to the CSOs for sharing 
As Safety Dude I felt it would be interesting/educational/amusing to crack out the breathalyser....
Everyone who had eaten 2 of them without washing their mouth out (including self) blew 0.05+
Did we report that to CASA? Yeah right!
As Safety Dude I felt it would be interesting/educational/amusing to crack out the breathalyser....
Everyone who had eaten 2 of them without washing their mouth out (including self) blew 0.05+
Did we report that to CASA? Yeah right!
You don't have to be falling out of your seat to be "considered" under the influence. Some people Might consider it reasonable to be concerned some one is under the influence due to the smell of alcohol?
It may not necessarily on ones breath, maybe they spilt some or some one else spilt some on them?
Anyway, I'm with the leave it alone, wait and see side of the story.
It may not necessarily on ones breath, maybe they spilt some or some one else spilt some on them?
Anyway, I'm with the leave it alone, wait and see side of the story.
Nunc est bibendum
If the rumours are true, yeh you can blow over after gargling mouthwash but nobody would suspect you of being under the influence.....
There is nothing I've read in this report that it was the actions of the crew member that resulted in the report going in and to suggest that it was at this early stage isn't exactly fair. You may turn out to be correct, but your gut call on the information available is not a fair one.
Renurrp said it better... whilst I was typing my response.
Last edited by Keg; 6th Aug 2012 at 04:30.
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I see that "Perth Now" have described the pilot as "drunk". I guess the story would not have been sensational enough otherwise.
Disgraceful and appalling reporting.
Drunk pilot ejected from flight minutes before take-off | Perth Now
Disgraceful and appalling reporting.
Drunk pilot ejected from flight minutes before take-off | Perth Now
I am suspicious of where the media got the story in the first place. I would not be surprised if this is part of the QF dirty tricks pr campaign. Really would the CC report the pilot to management before talking to the F/O? The whole thing just doesn't gel IMHO.
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AIPA response to the story
The pilots' union believes the alcohol-testing regime for its members and other workers in the airline industry, including engineers and baggage handlers, is sufficient because the rate of positive recordings is "infinitesimally low".
Australia's air-safety regulator also released figures today showing that only 45 people out of 51,000 tested for drugs and alcohol between late 2008 – when the regime was implemented – and March this year recorded positive readings.
The Civil Aviation and Safety Authority's random testing covers anyone who "touches an aircraft", including pilots, engineers, cabin crew and baggage handlers.
A spokesman for CASA, Peter Gibson, said that the regulator had pursued legal action against some of those who had recorded a positive reading.
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The Herald revealed today that Qantas has launched an investigation after one of its captains recorded a positive test for alcohol last week. She was removed from command of a Boeing 767-300 last Monday at Sydney Airport after cabin crew suspected she had been drinking before the flight.
Several industry insiders said today that the aviation industry had a "drink-driven culture".
But Richard Woodward, the vice-president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, said he did not believe that CASA's random drug and alcohol testing, as well as the airline's own programs, were in need of an overhaul because the rate of positive recordings in the industry was "infinitesimally low".
Although he conceded that social drinking was a "strong element" of the industry, he said that in the 25 years he had been an airline pilot "the populous has changed".
"The pilots as a body are healthier than they have ever been. Sure, they might meet in a bar for a drink before they go to dinner ... but I would put that in perspective," he said.
Mr Woodward, an A380 Qantas captain, cited statistics from the US showing the number of flights disrupted because of positive recordings for alcohol or drugs was about 100 over a five-year period, in a country in which 15,000 flights were made each day.
He described that rate as "not even a measurable statistic".
"The probability of someone testing positive in the States is infinitesimally low. We don't see any requirement to increase the testing [in Australia]," he said. "There is always targeted testing if there has been some information to lead authorities to believe an individual needs it."
Mr Woodward said the follow-up regime for those who recorded a positive alcohol reading was strict, and "if someone has a genuine issue they end up retiring from our profession"
Read more: Pilot drinking breaches 'infinitesimally low': union
Australia's air-safety regulator also released figures today showing that only 45 people out of 51,000 tested for drugs and alcohol between late 2008 – when the regime was implemented – and March this year recorded positive readings.
The Civil Aviation and Safety Authority's random testing covers anyone who "touches an aircraft", including pilots, engineers, cabin crew and baggage handlers.
A spokesman for CASA, Peter Gibson, said that the regulator had pursued legal action against some of those who had recorded a positive reading.
Advertisement
The Herald revealed today that Qantas has launched an investigation after one of its captains recorded a positive test for alcohol last week. She was removed from command of a Boeing 767-300 last Monday at Sydney Airport after cabin crew suspected she had been drinking before the flight.
Several industry insiders said today that the aviation industry had a "drink-driven culture".
But Richard Woodward, the vice-president of the Australian and International Pilots Association, said he did not believe that CASA's random drug and alcohol testing, as well as the airline's own programs, were in need of an overhaul because the rate of positive recordings in the industry was "infinitesimally low".
Although he conceded that social drinking was a "strong element" of the industry, he said that in the 25 years he had been an airline pilot "the populous has changed".
"The pilots as a body are healthier than they have ever been. Sure, they might meet in a bar for a drink before they go to dinner ... but I would put that in perspective," he said.
Mr Woodward, an A380 Qantas captain, cited statistics from the US showing the number of flights disrupted because of positive recordings for alcohol or drugs was about 100 over a five-year period, in a country in which 15,000 flights were made each day.
He described that rate as "not even a measurable statistic".
"The probability of someone testing positive in the States is infinitesimally low. We don't see any requirement to increase the testing [in Australia]," he said. "There is always targeted testing if there has been some information to lead authorities to believe an individual needs it."
Mr Woodward said the follow-up regime for those who recorded a positive alcohol reading was strict, and "if someone has a genuine issue they end up retiring from our profession"
Read more: Pilot drinking breaches 'infinitesimally low': union
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