AIPA

[WorthWhat]

when it comes to internal political 'campaigning'....political success stories quickly turn into industrial failure

Is a cold reality of modern democracy.

Rudd and Woods have things in common. Independence and honesty was their personal strength and their political weakness. Both were elected by the masses and dumped by their party.

We get the government we deserve.

Let’s hope Australia doesn’t come to lament the demise of Rudd’s Mining Tax and Qantas pilots the failure of EBA 8.

[Josh Cox]

I am not a member of AIPA, but wish them well.

It is disgraceful that there appears to be an attempt to publicly assassinate representative members, of any union/federation, if you don't like the cut of their jib , get involved in the PC and vote them out.

The only winner from this type of behavior is not the members.

I sat through an AIPA/AFAP meeting once. One of the parties began airing a grievance going back to the mid 1980's and it all became clear to me why, while certain people remain rusted on in certain positions, that there will never be a rapprochement.

That is unfortunate ( and needs to change ), but I guess that is what happens when egos overstep common sense and the reason for being there.

We are such an industry of haters, 89's, not 89's, jetstar, mainline, AFAP, AIPA, TWU, left handers, right handers, the ambidextrous, cat people and those dastardly dog people............................

I feel PPRuNe (publicly) is not the forum for this type of discussion.

[Trent 972]

I feel PPRuNe (publicly) is not the forum for this type of discussion

And yet, you just did!

And who exactly did I slag off ?.

Relax Josh. I simply made the observation that you engaged in a discussion on a forum that you argue is not a suitable forum for the discussion.
Why did you bother?

[Josh Cox]

And who exactly did I slag off ?.

[bdcer]

Haa Haa....Rudd (or most pollies for that matter!) honest....Haa Haa!!
You gotta get out more

[Josh Cox]

Thanks Trent,

Why did you bother?

I was hoping it might prompt some inward reflection.

Sure, punch it out behind the bike shed if that is your thing, but personally attacking someone on a public forum using a pseudonym is not the image I would like to see painted of me and my peers.

Remember, the media frequents these pages.

[vwreggie]

sideline experts

After years of serving on various senior and junior amateur sporting committees as well as coaching I had to explain to my daughter once that on any voluntary committee you will have a small percentage of the people doing the work and the large percentage standing around gossiping about how the volunteers might do things better.

I am never critical of people spending their time serving on a voluntary basis in a capacity that serves me when I have neither the time nor inclination to DO any better.

Thanks for your efforts to date guys.

See you behind the shed big boeing boofhead

[Keg]

I was hoping it might prompt some inward reflection.

Inward reflection? From pilots?

[Angle of Attack]

Just to clarify an earlier poster, no AIPA is not only the domain of QF Group pilots, there are quite a number of VB pilots as members too and they receive all the legal support as per all members.

[Air Ace]

Pilots generally are yet to learn the old adage:

"United they stand, divided they fall."

One profession, how many unions? No wonder the airlines can pick them off.

Derived from the Latin saying Divide et impera, "Divide and Conquer" is probably the personal motto of most contemporary airline executive managers!

[unseen]

Serious question:

if you know better, stop whinging and offer yourself and your ideas up for election, otherwise shut the up.

If you don't what like what the Australian or state governments do - do you stop whinging and offer yourself and your ideas up for election?

I bet the answer is no - we make our voice heard to our elected officials by letter writing, phone calls, emails etc etc.

Why is a union different?

Isn't it our duty as members to say when we don't agree with the direction taken by the committee or how they go about it, even if it is not a popular view?

Does everyone who has an interest in how things are done have to either stand for election or just shut up and go away????

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Does everyone who has an interest in how things are done have to either stand for election or just shut up and go away????

No they shouldn't have to stand for election or shut up and go away. I've always said that only about 1% of any union's membership have an interest in being a Representative at any level and of those, less than half do it for the right reasons and of that half, less than half are effective at what they do.

A true union or Association will listen to the views of all its members whether they like what they are hearing or not. The organisation and its leaders should then represent the views of the majority and put aside their personal preferences. Members should then respect the views of the majority and stand as one with them.

That being said, on these forums there are a number of players who are clearly not part of any organisation other then management.

[teresa green]

Unseen excuse my over reaction, but if you look at it from a committee members point of view, you see blokes who give up the little free time they have to keep the union going. You see blokes who often cop it from home about doing that extra work, as their day job sees them away so often. You see blokes who are basically community minded, who take on the fight for all of you against the companies. So you can understand when the whingers start naming names about these blokes and what they have failed to do, and you say Ok mate, how about you put your hand up, you can bet your right ball you will get, Oh the missus is not all that well, or we have a new kid, or I have to look after the ol man, etc etc etc. It never occurs to them the committee member might be in the same boat, but some how manages to find the time. Everybody has a right to a opinion without having to join the committee, but after ten years on the AFAP, I came to the conclusion, that there are the doers, the whingers, and the don't give a ****, but thanks anyway people. Committee members are not asking for a gong, they just ask for a little understanding, they are not getting paid, they are on the hate list of their company, and they are probably copping a earful from the missus, and when they get back on the flight deck. Just the view from the other side sometimes helps.

[*Lancer*]

I wonder how many of the 5 or so effective representatives are in the Exec of AIPA?

[Jackneville]

Swings and roundabouts

"outdated and inefficient compared to what is around today"

So why is it that when we check in/out of our slip hotels, I see other long haul crews that comprise of two Captains and two F/o's ?

[Keg]

At the current AUD and given what many of our long haul pilots earn, that's no longer an argument in our favour. Our 744 and A380 F/Os are earning better (perhaps significantly so) than many command contracts.

At 70 cents to the USD it may be a different story- probably break even. At 50 cents we're finally in front with our model

This is part of the issue that we face. We continually delude ourselves with comparisons that once were accurate but aren't at the moment. Maybe they will suit us again in the future but at the moment they just illustrate that we're completely out of touch with the current reality. Let's hope the reality changes for all our good.

[clear to land]

FWIW guys, to give a fare wage comparison, I am an EK 777 TRI, living in company accomodation ie no living out allowance. If I use the ATO calculator to determine what I need to earn, before tax, to end up with what I get in the hand, and factoring the company determined accomodation value the calculator figure is just shy of $AU410k per annum on todays exchange rate. I am guessing that the average QF TRI doesn't get that. Yes I do have to live in DXB to get it, but guess what, it is what you make it, just like Nhulunbuy was in 1990. Nothing has been constant in Australia except the erosion of pilots salaries- years ago it used to be the same as a High Court Judge, now.......
When in Australia I was on a number of Pilot Committees-and the only constant was that when it came to facing the company, all the very vocal supporters suddenly shut up, and I was on my own. Hence coming to a place where I can't join a group as they are illegal, thus I keep myself out of that sort of trouble

[kellykelpie]

I think you may find that there are QF TRIs, TREs on a fair bit more than this clear to land.

[clear to land]

If so kelly-thats great to hear. Like I said-it's certainly no longer the equivelent of a High Court Judge.

[DutchRoll]

Originally Posted by Keg

Inward reflection? From pilots?

Couldn't agree more Keg.