QF 448 MEL-SYD Pan Call Antiskid inop 19/4
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Might depend on what runway they were assigned initially?
If it was 07 due noise sharing with a quartering tail wind as Sydney is renowned to do, then hell yeah, I would demand 16R with Anti-skid inop.
Just speculating of course but i'm sure the crews reasons, what ever they were, were justifiable.
If it was 07 due noise sharing with a quartering tail wind as Sydney is renowned to do, then hell yeah, I would demand 16R with Anti-skid inop.
Just speculating of course but i'm sure the crews reasons, what ever they were, were justifiable.
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Thats what PAN calls are for, to ensure that an abnormal event turns into a non-event. It makes sure that you get 16R and if it does all go wrong emergency services are already there. I am sure there would be a long line of critics of it had not ended so well and he had not taken every opportunity before landing.
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2plus;
Definition: Pan-Pan
In radiotelephone communications, a call of three repetitions of pan-pan[1] ( /ˈpɑːn ˈpɑːn/)[2][3] is used to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself.[4] This is referred to as a state of urgency. This is distinct from a Mayday call, which means that there is imminent danger to life or to the continued viability of the vessel itself.[5] Thus "pan-pan" informs potential rescuers (including emergency services and other craft in the area) that a safety problem exists whereas "Mayday" will call upon them to drop all other activities and immediately initiate a rescue attempt.
Enough said.
Hate to think if an "urgency" situation arose.
In radiotelephone communications, a call of three repetitions of pan-pan[1] ( /ˈpɑːn ˈpɑːn/)[2][3] is used to signify that there is an urgency on board a boat, ship, aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself.[4] This is referred to as a state of urgency. This is distinct from a Mayday call, which means that there is imminent danger to life or to the continued viability of the vessel itself.[5] Thus "pan-pan" informs potential rescuers (including emergency services and other craft in the area) that a safety problem exists whereas "Mayday" will call upon them to drop all other activities and immediately initiate a rescue attempt.
Enough said.
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Some fair points made.
Stalin,
Indeed and thankyou for highlighting my point. Was the situation urgent? I don't know, I wasn't there. But unless fuel remaining became an issue, as a result of an ATC delay to slot them into the flow for a longer runway, methinks not.
Wedcue,
A very constructive comment there. Thankyou also. Rather ironic don't you think, coming from one who uses smart arse personal attacks to convey a difference of opinion? Not a pollie are you? In answer to your question...3 days.
I'm not saying that what transpired or whatever was said was wrong. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a rats. Obviously the crew did what they felt was necessary for the safety of the flight. They obviously wanted the firies there waiting just in case. Fair call. I'm simply posing the idea that just perhaps, a PAN wasn't necessary. If you think it was, fair enough. Maybe I'm not conservative enough. How about if you were dispatched with an antiskid inop. MEL. Would you declare a PAN when you got to Sydney and they assigned you initially 16L?
Anyway, it's past my bedtime and I need my rest. Apparently I have school on Monday.
Stalin,
Indeed and thankyou for highlighting my point. Was the situation urgent? I don't know, I wasn't there. But unless fuel remaining became an issue, as a result of an ATC delay to slot them into the flow for a longer runway, methinks not.
Wedcue,
A very constructive comment there. Thankyou also. Rather ironic don't you think, coming from one who uses smart arse personal attacks to convey a difference of opinion? Not a pollie are you? In answer to your question...3 days.
I'm not saying that what transpired or whatever was said was wrong. Quite frankly, I couldn't give a rats. Obviously the crew did what they felt was necessary for the safety of the flight. They obviously wanted the firies there waiting just in case. Fair call. I'm simply posing the idea that just perhaps, a PAN wasn't necessary. If you think it was, fair enough. Maybe I'm not conservative enough. How about if you were dispatched with an antiskid inop. MEL. Would you declare a PAN when you got to Sydney and they assigned you initially 16L?
Anyway, it's past my bedtime and I need my rest. Apparently I have school on Monday.
Last edited by 2Plus; 19th Apr 2012 at 16:23.
Nunc est bibendum
How about if you were dispatched with an antiskid inop. MEL.
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2plus, let me point out another part of that paragraph you neglected to read.
"aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself."
That plane ends up off the end of the runway due to that system inop, hell yeah I would want everyone there and ready for me.
"aircraft or other vehicle but that, for the time being at least, there is no immediate danger to anyone's life or to the vessel itself."
That plane ends up off the end of the runway due to that system inop, hell yeah I would want everyone there and ready for me.
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If you dispatch with Anti-skid inop it's alot more restrictive on planned runway length than if it happens in the air and you can use the QRH non-normal distances.
Just imagine if the pilots hadn't called a PAN and run off the end of the runway - I think this thread would be quite a bit different!
IMHO absolutely correct to call a PAN.
Just imagine if the pilots hadn't called a PAN and run off the end of the runway - I think this thread would be quite a bit different!
IMHO absolutely correct to call a PAN.
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Spot on Greendeck
Thats what PAN calls are for, to ensure that an abnormal event turns into a non-event. It makes sure that you get 16R and if it does all go wrong emergency services are already there. I am sure there would be a long line of critics of it had not ended so well and he had not taken every opportunity before landing.
What? Call a PAN and interrupt the volleyball? Why not, it keeps everyone in the game. On a serious note, if you can't find a runway long enough, does it then become an emergency and you don't have to factor 1.67?
There is no such thing as a "trigger" point for a PAN call. It is made because it is considered appropriate for the situation. The PIC wanted all the assistance he could get. Use of all available resources I think its called. Remember those CRM courses? Its not just the resources on the flight deck. As has been mentioned a non-event.
They obviously wanted the firies there waiting just in case.
In addition, you can bet your bottom dollar that the emergency services learnt something about their call-out procedures that they can improve on and will have learnt something valuable. It will have been good experience for the junior emergency services personnal as well. All in all, a good day for everyone 
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Antiskid inop on a big jet can be a very big deal. It's a significant MEL when you look at runway length requirements. I seem to recall at least one QF case of the jet simply being towed back to the hangar with virtually no questions asked, on a rainy day when the antiskid became inop.
Straight away, even without weather or runway length issues, there is the increased possibility of blown tyres on landing with brake application (we're so used to using the brakes however we want because the antiskid takes care of it all). The runway length increase needed for a safe landing can be very considerable depending on the circumstances.
It'll take 3 or 4 days for everyone to forget about any debate over declaring a PAN. But if he didn't, and burst the tyres or swerved off the side or end of the runway, he's going to bear that burden for a long, long time (before and after the ATSB investigation).
Straight away, even without weather or runway length issues, there is the increased possibility of blown tyres on landing with brake application (we're so used to using the brakes however we want because the antiskid takes care of it all). The runway length increase needed for a safe landing can be very considerable depending on the circumstances.
It'll take 3 or 4 days for everyone to forget about any debate over declaring a PAN. But if he didn't, and burst the tyres or swerved off the side or end of the runway, he's going to bear that burden for a long, long time (before and after the ATSB investigation).
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FONG..... go and advertise some other place!