Have you noticed the increase in cabin baggage?
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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Have you noticed the increase in cabin baggage?
I haven't travelled down the back of a domestic flight for a while, but I was on a 73 last week and every overhead bin was full of small carry-on luggage. There seems to be a rise in carry on baggage for two reasons, 1. the length of time it takes to retieve checked baggage at the other end, and 2. the extra cost of checked baggage. The NTSB has noted a fault with overhead bins that may cause injury in survivable accidents.
Have a look when you next jump on board a flight and check this outthis NTSB hyperlink for mods to 737's http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109391...E-I2lHmS2IT3I=
Have a look when you next jump on board a flight and check this outthis NTSB hyperlink for mods to 737's http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?et=1109391...E-I2lHmS2IT3I=
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If you think it's bad here, try flying on a domestic sector in the US. There are a huge number of roll aboard cases plus handbags and backpacks. Some of this is for access in flight such as briefcases, handbags etc but most is to avoid checking the luggage.
Low cost operators have charged for baggage on the grounds of cost. Obviously it does cost fuel to carry weight and then that fuel costs more fuel but only charging for checked baggage and letting people carry heavy bags into the cabin doesn't make the aircraft lighter, it just looks that way when you use standard weights.
So here's my idea. Charge people a ticket that includes a baggage weight allowance (make it generous, say 30-40kg). At check in your checked luggage is weighed. At the gate your carry on is weighed as you present your boarding pass. At each point you receive a receipt for your own records but the computer calculates how much of your entitlement you have not used (hence the generous point above) and by the time you land your credit card has been refunded for the amount you didn't use. Frequent flyers could opt for points instead and get a bonus percentage for not taking the cash.
People like getting money, not shelling it out. Therefore, psychologically they will be happier even though the cost is no different than paying for baggage by the kg. The airline wins because it has the cash up front and if the refund is in miles it has it for even longer. The cost per kg can also be sharpened because the bean counters don't have to account for unknown amounts of baggage as there are no standard weights.
It will take some time to process each bag at the gate but there will be a decrease in time for pax deciding whether to pay for carry on and then processing that payment. If it reduces carry on the loading and unloading times will be faster and pax will be happier with the inflight experience.
And we all win because The risk posed by overhead luggage coming adrift in flight or in an accident is reduced.
Low cost operators have charged for baggage on the grounds of cost. Obviously it does cost fuel to carry weight and then that fuel costs more fuel but only charging for checked baggage and letting people carry heavy bags into the cabin doesn't make the aircraft lighter, it just looks that way when you use standard weights.
So here's my idea. Charge people a ticket that includes a baggage weight allowance (make it generous, say 30-40kg). At check in your checked luggage is weighed. At the gate your carry on is weighed as you present your boarding pass. At each point you receive a receipt for your own records but the computer calculates how much of your entitlement you have not used (hence the generous point above) and by the time you land your credit card has been refunded for the amount you didn't use. Frequent flyers could opt for points instead and get a bonus percentage for not taking the cash.
People like getting money, not shelling it out. Therefore, psychologically they will be happier even though the cost is no different than paying for baggage by the kg. The airline wins because it has the cash up front and if the refund is in miles it has it for even longer. The cost per kg can also be sharpened because the bean counters don't have to account for unknown amounts of baggage as there are no standard weights.
It will take some time to process each bag at the gate but there will be a decrease in time for pax deciding whether to pay for carry on and then processing that payment. If it reduces carry on the loading and unloading times will be faster and pax will be happier with the inflight experience.
And we all win because The risk posed by overhead luggage coming adrift in flight or in an accident is reduced.
Last edited by Roger Greendeck; 27th Feb 2012 at 21:40.
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Simple...........BAN anything bigger than my laptop backpack, There is no need for anything more. That is what the hold is for.
And yes it drives me mad too. I struggle to use a small amount of carry on because of the LUGGAGE carried on.
And yes it drives me mad too. I struggle to use a small amount of carry on because of the LUGGAGE carried on.
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I thought that the Air Navigation Act required the pilot to know the Actual Take Off Weight of the Aircraft, with so many oversized, overweight, carry on bags how do you know?
CASA??
CASA??
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I agree. It has been a thorn in my side for ages... but NO ONE in authority cares.
As far as I am concerned, ALL air tickets SHOULD be sold with a checked in baggage included. IF this means that LCC's have to raise their airfares by $20 ... so be it!
it seems that DECENT airlines are the ones getting punished for doiung the right thing.
BTW... if you REALLY want to put in a report... have a look inside the overhead locker. it WILL state a max weight. IF that has been exceeded then it is a reportable offence, IMHO.
As far as I am concerned, ALL air tickets SHOULD be sold with a checked in baggage included. IF this means that LCC's have to raise their airfares by $20 ... so be it!
it seems that DECENT airlines are the ones getting punished for doiung the right thing.
BTW... if you REALLY want to put in a report... have a look inside the overhead locker. it WILL state a max weight. IF that has been exceeded then it is a reportable offence, IMHO.
I was paxing on DJ home the other day and two flights were combined due to u/s aircraft. At the boarding gate, the announcement came over that due to the full flight, the overhead lockers were going to be full so if anyone wanted to check their bags into the hold, they were welcome - and no charge would be made.
At least 40 people went to the counter with their overnight wheely bags and were happy to send them below.
Based on that observation, I'd say it's the cost, not the wait at the other end that does it for most people.
At least 40 people went to the counter with their overnight wheely bags and were happy to send them below.
Based on that observation, I'd say it's the cost, not the wait at the other end that does it for most people.
and just to roll a hand-grenade in ...
What about an allowance covering total weight of: passenger + checked luggage + carry-on?
Passenger stands on scales with "all" their bags and coats and ... whatever else they are carrying onboard. No weight shown only how many points (using Roger G's idea) earned ... or lost?
Aside from logistics, time, customer pushback, infringement of 'rights'. any other issues to stop this being done?
Time is the issue with me. Getting to the taxi queue before my fellow riff-raff saves considerable time.
Disclosure: just a passenger of below average weight mostly on day trips with a small backpack who is a bit pissed off with the volume brought onboard ... and just a bit concerned about the (unknown) weight of it all.
Passenger stands on scales with "all" their bags and coats and ... whatever else they are carrying onboard. No weight shown only how many points (using Roger G's idea) earned ... or lost?
Aside from logistics, time, customer pushback, infringement of 'rights'. any other issues to stop this being done?
Time is the issue with me. Getting to the taxi queue before my fellow riff-raff saves considerable time.
Disclosure: just a passenger of below average weight mostly on day trips with a small backpack who is a bit pissed off with the volume brought onboard ... and just a bit concerned about the (unknown) weight of it all.
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how about a flat rate per Kg. including the pax weight... simple.
you can estimate weight when buying ticket, but at check in, get refund or pay extra if you over or under estimate...
i can see it now, Sydney to Melbourne, $0.99 per/kg!
you can estimate weight when buying ticket, but at check in, get refund or pay extra if you over or under estimate...
i can see it now, Sydney to Melbourne, $0.99 per/kg!
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cramming 150 plus bums into a 738 or the like with many pax carrying roller luggage is one of the main reasons for departure delays. Getting everyone seated and bags stowed is a major problem. If on time departures are paramount , the airlines need to sort it out.
The cost saving to the airlines is not just the mythical fuel saving but a reduction in ground handling facilities. i.e. 150 pax with 200+ bags in the lockers but only 50 bags in the hold. If the airlines could have zero hold baggage then they could completely do away with ground baggage handling. Just remember to keep you heads down when paxing so you don't get clobbered as others open the overfull lockers. I like the way it used to be.
Clark y
Clark y
I was paxing on DJ home the other day and two flights were combined due to u/s aircraft.
I mean, what are the chances of that happening, randomly.
EVERYTHING is based on one thing in aviation, MONEY! Safety & common sense take a back seat!
If the money greedy CEO's could get people to stand instead of sitting & carry all their bags on board they would, less handling of bags etc means less manpower means less outgoing costs.
Overweight A/C T/off world wide everyday despite the Regs, the Regs are like locked doors, there only for the honest thieves!
Recently we had a family of five (2 adults 3 rug rats) board at the last minute, 11 bags in total between them even though 10 was the max between them they still got thru.
No room for their bags/luggage as overheads where bulging already.Open cargo door remove all 11 bags from cabin & stow to lower hold inc some other extra large bags the 'trolly dollies' found stuffed under seats, great there goes several min delay!!!!!
An easy fix is reduce the cabin bag size, not just the weight.
Wmk2
If the money greedy CEO's could get people to stand instead of sitting & carry all their bags on board they would, less handling of bags etc means less manpower means less outgoing costs.
Overweight A/C T/off world wide everyday despite the Regs, the Regs are like locked doors, there only for the honest thieves!
Recently we had a family of five (2 adults 3 rug rats) board at the last minute, 11 bags in total between them even though 10 was the max between them they still got thru.
No room for their bags/luggage as overheads where bulging already.Open cargo door remove all 11 bags from cabin & stow to lower hold inc some other extra large bags the 'trolly dollies' found stuffed under seats, great there goes several min delay!!!!!
An easy fix is reduce the cabin bag size, not just the weight.
Wmk2
I agree that this IS an issue.
However, at present airlines in Australia do not even KNOW WHO is ON their aircraft. So long as the sex of the pax at boarding gate matches the boarding pass then satff are happy.
What happens if I give my boarding pass to someone after checking in bags?
If you want to start somewhere with all this then start there. The whole system is flawed.
Don't think the security mandarins do not know this. Testing has shown how easy it is to do.
However, at present airlines in Australia do not even KNOW WHO is ON their aircraft. So long as the sex of the pax at boarding gate matches the boarding pass then satff are happy.
What happens if I give my boarding pass to someone after checking in bags?
If you want to start somewhere with all this then start there. The whole system is flawed.
Don't think the security mandarins do not know this. Testing has shown how easy it is to do.
It doesn't seem so long ago that airlines went to considerable effort to encourage pax to stow their bags in the hold. Sometimes we would have two staff on the boarding gate just to police cabin baggage - because it was a safety issue. These days the airlines don't have the staff to police cabin baggage and their policy of charging for checked baggage effectively encourages pax to take as much as possible in the cabin. This is just one of many lessons that will have to be re-learned.
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If I fly domestically I usually carry a max size wheelie carry on bag, because why pay more for the honour of putting it in the hold?
However, I do keep my carry on bag under 7 kgs and I can get it in and out of a locker in the time it takes some dribbling idiots (sorry, fellow pax) to figure out how their seatbelt works.
The airlines have created this rod for their own backs by grabbing the quick buck re check in baggage. It's more of the usual airline short term bean counting that we all know and love.
They obviously won't spare the resources to weigh bags at the boarding gate either, so no wonder pax are boarding with monster suitcases, garden statuary and microwave ovens when they know they'll probably get away with it. Everyone else...buy a hard hat and get ready to duck.
However, I do keep my carry on bag under 7 kgs and I can get it in and out of a locker in the time it takes some dribbling idiots (sorry, fellow pax) to figure out how their seatbelt works.
The airlines have created this rod for their own backs by grabbing the quick buck re check in baggage. It's more of the usual airline short term bean counting that we all know and love
. They obviously won't spare the resources to weigh bags at the boarding gate either, so no wonder pax are boarding with monster suitcases, garden statuary and microwave ovens when they know they'll probably get away with it. Everyone else...buy a hard hat and get ready to duck.
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Jaba, careful mate. Boston Bruce will get a chubby over that photo! A plane crammed full of bodies and what looks like just 1 cabin crew - his dream come true !!
Mind you, his little mate at another carrier, you know, the little fella who has minimal 'carry on baggage' of his own so to speak would also get excited amongst all those men, even room for the poodles !!
Mind you, his little mate at another carrier, you know, the little fella who has minimal 'carry on baggage' of his own so to speak would also get excited amongst all those men, even room for the poodles !!
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Cabin bag smuggling has been rife for years too.
I pinged one "regular" who walked in with a regulation size cabin bag but was about 3" lower on the bag side of his body than the other.
Stick it on the scales mate drew indignant comments. 24 kilos of hand loaded competition shotgun ammo. Guess where that didn't go.
The best onboard effort I ever saw was in HKG on an AN 743 service with the Chinese boarding staff letting anything through and a lovely blonde lady on the door rejecting everything that was oversize.
One Chinese dude next to me did try to stash his gear under the seat in front of me and I told him to pound wet sand up his backside.The F/A's looked at each other asking how in hell he got on with it and made him go back and pay the excess and check it in I am 6'4" and that is MY SPACE!
Standard weights seem to have gone to hell as the punters will conceal what they don't want the airline to know about over their 7/10 kg carry on limit.
Give them an inch, they will take the full length of the runway and hopefully nothing beyond.
Bring back inclusive baggage as a legal requirement.
Safety is No Accident - on every TAA Load and Trim document and still valid now - if we could only pull the accountants away from the smell of the trough and the tasty revenue and potential bonuses for them.
Best all
EWL
I pinged one "regular" who walked in with a regulation size cabin bag but was about 3" lower on the bag side of his body than the other.
Stick it on the scales mate drew indignant comments. 24 kilos of hand loaded competition shotgun ammo. Guess where that didn't go.
The best onboard effort I ever saw was in HKG on an AN 743 service with the Chinese boarding staff letting anything through and a lovely blonde lady on the door rejecting everything that was oversize.
One Chinese dude next to me did try to stash his gear under the seat in front of me and I told him to pound wet sand up his backside.The F/A's looked at each other asking how in hell he got on with it and made him go back and pay the excess and check it in I am 6'4" and that is MY SPACE!
Standard weights seem to have gone to hell as the punters will conceal what they don't want the airline to know about over their 7/10 kg carry on limit.
Give them an inch, they will take the full length of the runway and hopefully nothing beyond.
Bring back inclusive baggage as a legal requirement.
Safety is No Accident - on every TAA Load and Trim document and still valid now - if we could only pull the accountants away from the smell of the trough and the tasty revenue and potential bonuses for them.
Best all
EWL