Qantas faces more competition through China
I flew on China Southern A330 from Guangzhou to Melbourne a few years ago and soon after that, I flew on a Qantas 767 from Perth to Melbourne. IMO, there wasn't much difference between the two; both aircraft didn't have IFE's on the back of the seats, service ordinary and flight attendants were there as a legal requirement for the flight .. nothing more. 
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I would treat it as like something I bought at Bunnings, it might work, then again it just might not. Given that most things that I have bought out of China in the last year, either have a part missing, or four parts left over, or simply don't work, I think I will stick to QF's old rollers regardless. I prefer to hear "brace" in my own lingo.
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I would treat it as like something I bought at Bunnings, it might work, then again it just might not. Given that most things that I have bought out of China in the last year, either have a part missing, or four parts left over, or simply don't work, I think I will stick to QF's old rollers regardless
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While to a lot of Australians and indeed westerners the idea of flying China Southern is not an ideal thought an awful lot of Chinese would have no problems using it to fly to Australia.
If you have a huge market with money to spend to fly from China to Australia and return then why not take advantage of it yourself.
It's called maintaining market share and making a profit or at least that's the generally accepted idea of a business unless you have another agenda.
If you have a huge market with money to spend to fly from China to Australia and return then why not take advantage of it yourself.
It's called maintaining market share and making a profit or at least that's the generally accepted idea of a business unless you have another agenda.
Had to PAX on China Southern once, cured my need to use an aircraft toilet for life. I can now do up to 9 hours without going. On a more scientific note I am still puzzled on how you get those marks on the mirror.
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Chinese airlines' sixth freedom roles could challenge Middle East, Asian, European hubs this decade | CAPA
Article on this topic. The CASK charts are scary for QF.
Article on this topic. The CASK charts are scary for QF.
China Southern is definitely the one to watch until the Chinese ATC system catches up with the growth. Guangzhou is relatively free of congestion where as Beijing/Shanghai have the equivalent of gridlock. A two hour delay in these areas is nothing.
Design wise Guangzhou airport is a carbon copy of Singapore Changi with lots of presently unused capacity. They have a massive home market and could probably kick off routes on the basis of locals traveling overseas and foreigners visiting the "factory of the world", there are some nice beaches and golf courses around Shenzhen, Hong Kong is an easy side trip.
Unlike Singapore/Middle East airlines which have small home markets and rely on being a transit point, China Southern may be able to regard transit passengers as jam with the local market as bread and butter. Fares could be very competitive on through routes if the component flights are already profitable on their own, tickets could be sold for significantly less than than other airlines need to charge to cover their costs.
With their resources it won't be hard for China Southern to bring in overseas talent to the training department and make improvements in the service area.
They are featured in the January issue of Airliner World magazine.
Design wise Guangzhou airport is a carbon copy of Singapore Changi with lots of presently unused capacity. They have a massive home market and could probably kick off routes on the basis of locals traveling overseas and foreigners visiting the "factory of the world", there are some nice beaches and golf courses around Shenzhen, Hong Kong is an easy side trip.
Unlike Singapore/Middle East airlines which have small home markets and rely on being a transit point, China Southern may be able to regard transit passengers as jam with the local market as bread and butter. Fares could be very competitive on through routes if the component flights are already profitable on their own, tickets could be sold for significantly less than than other airlines need to charge to cover their costs.
With their resources it won't be hard for China Southern to bring in overseas talent to the training department and make improvements in the service area.
They are featured in the January issue of Airliner World magazine.
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Design wise Guangzhou airport is a carbon copy of Singapore Changi with lots of presently unused capacity. They have a massive home market and could probably kick off routes on the basis of locals traveling overseas and foreigners visiting the "factory of the world", there are some nice beaches and golf courses around Shenzhen, Hong Kong is an easy side trip.
Guangzhou and Hong Kong are now pretty much on par in terms of movements at around 1000 per day. If anything ZGGG is probably ahead now. Shenzhen just 20 miles north is averaging around 6-700. Macau is less than 20 miles to the west with another 120 odd.
Over Chinese New Year average daily movements in the combined Pearl River Delta terminal airspace (below 20,000 ft) would have been around 3000.
Movements are expected to top 5000 per day within a handful of years. So there's no misunderstanding, apart from a few bizjets, we're talking about nothing smaller than a B737/A320. At Hong Kong almost 70% of traffic is Heavy or Super. Wake turbulence separation kills runway movement rates.
Yes there are big delays in China but they are on an extremely steep learning curve- trying to do in 20 years what the US did in 70.
Take a look at the annual movements at Beijing. Just 3 years ago they were number 21 in terms of movements- now they are number 6 with about 540,000 movments p.a. For comparison, Sydney has a little over 300,000.
Sorry for the thread drift but just wanted to emphasize the impact that an increasing % of 1.3 billion people being able to afford to fly will mean.
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It looks like QF's cost base is only 15% higher than SQ and 20% higher than CX. If the AUD fell 20% to around AUD85c, QF's cost base would be lower than SQ and CX. And considering QF operates aging 747s and 767s and mostly short flights, this is not a bad achievement at all.
Also wages in China are rising around 20% per annum. IN my company we have to give massive pay rises each year, so Chinese wages will rise to a point some point in the not so distant future that they reach HK/SIN levels.
Already in Singapore we are facing huge problems getting workers from CHina willing to clean up after us and serve at our restaurants at low wages.... There was a near disaster in the past 2 weeks over the Chinese New Year period when the Chinese nationals went home and restaurants had to either close or double wages of service staff (so that a Singaporean would actually do the job) because there were practically no cleaners and waiters left in the country.
Most of the ones we get come from very poor provinces in North East China like Jilin. But even that supply is drying up.....
Also wages in China are rising around 20% per annum. IN my company we have to give massive pay rises each year, so Chinese wages will rise to a point some point in the not so distant future that they reach HK/SIN levels.
Already in Singapore we are facing huge problems getting workers from CHina willing to clean up after us and serve at our restaurants at low wages.... There was a near disaster in the past 2 weeks over the Chinese New Year period when the Chinese nationals went home and restaurants had to either close or double wages of service staff (so that a Singaporean would actually do the job) because there were practically no cleaners and waiters left in the country.
Most of the ones we get come from very poor provinces in North East China like Jilin. But even that supply is drying up.....
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Have had quite a few passengers on CZ - simply driven by price. No whinges at all and some repeat traffic too.
Had a flight cancel problem last week with a 12 hour layover CAN ensuing - called Agency and after a disgracefully long hold the problem was fixed with a transit hotel and transfers plus 24 hour visa. Not bad for a "cheapie" who seem to be swarming the Europe market.
Below is a snapshot of an E ticket . Just look at the fare and then ask why they are getting more and more street cred.
ELECTRONIC TICKET RECORD
INV: CUST: PNR:BDIVXZ
TKT:7845349442713 ISSUED:19JAN12 PCC:Y2P3 IATA:02345943
NAME:ANxxxxxxxxxx
FOP: CASH
CPN A/L FLT CLS DATE BRDOFF TIME ST F/B STAT
1 CZ 344 V 10MAY MELCAN 1030 OK VPREUSP OPEN
2 CZ 307 B 10MAY CANAMS 2355 OK VPREUSP OPEN
3 CZ 308 B 08JUN AMSCAN 1320 OK VPREUSP OPEN
4 CZ 321 V 09JUN CANMEL 2100 OK VPREUSP OPEN
NONEND/RER CHG/REF/NOSHOW/PENALTY APPLY
FARE AUD600.00 TAX 16.00YQ TAX 313.40YR TAX 147.04XT
TOTAL AUD1076.44
MEL CZ X/CAN CZ AMS307.20VPREUSP CZ X/CAN CZ MEL307.20 VP
REUSP NUC614.40END ROE0.976535 XT47.00AU3.98WG28.36WY28.20 CN17
.00CJ19.90RN2.60VV
Yep that is 10 May departure and return Amsterdam for $1076.44 ex MEL. Name is blanked for obvious reasons.
Base fare is interesting. AUD600.00.
Be vewwy vewwy quiet - heehehehehe - we're hunting kangawoo
Best to all in South East Queensland and mid-North NSW. Hope all is clearing with the rotten weather.
Tas actually needs rain. I have had the rooves in the Z for 2 days out of 30. Ridiculous.
EWL
Had a flight cancel problem last week with a 12 hour layover CAN ensuing - called Agency and after a disgracefully long hold the problem was fixed with a transit hotel and transfers plus 24 hour visa. Not bad for a "cheapie" who seem to be swarming the Europe market.
Below is a snapshot of an E ticket . Just look at the fare and then ask why they are getting more and more street cred.
ELECTRONIC TICKET RECORD
INV: CUST: PNR:BDIVXZ
TKT:7845349442713 ISSUED:19JAN12 PCC:Y2P3 IATA:02345943
NAME:ANxxxxxxxxxx
FOP: CASH
CPN A/L FLT CLS DATE BRDOFF TIME ST F/B STAT
1 CZ 344 V 10MAY MELCAN 1030 OK VPREUSP OPEN
2 CZ 307 B 10MAY CANAMS 2355 OK VPREUSP OPEN
3 CZ 308 B 08JUN AMSCAN 1320 OK VPREUSP OPEN
4 CZ 321 V 09JUN CANMEL 2100 OK VPREUSP OPEN
NONEND/RER CHG/REF/NOSHOW/PENALTY APPLY
FARE AUD600.00 TAX 16.00YQ TAX 313.40YR TAX 147.04XT
TOTAL AUD1076.44
MEL CZ X/CAN CZ AMS307.20VPREUSP CZ X/CAN CZ MEL307.20 VP
REUSP NUC614.40END ROE0.976535 XT47.00AU3.98WG28.36WY28.20 CN17
.00CJ19.90RN2.60VV
Yep that is 10 May departure and return Amsterdam for $1076.44 ex MEL. Name is blanked for obvious reasons.
Base fare is interesting. AUD600.00.
Be vewwy vewwy quiet - heehehehehe - we're hunting kangawoo
Best to all in South East Queensland and mid-North NSW. Hope all is clearing with the rotten weather.
Tas actually needs rain. I have had the rooves in the Z for 2 days out of 30. Ridiculous.
EWL
Australia Day Ferrython
And the winner of the Australia Day 2012 Ferrython on Sydney Harbour was [drumroll please] :
China Southern Airlines.
[Qantas was not even in the race].
China Southern Airlines.
[Qantas was not even in the race].
TOTAL AUD1076.44
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Could this explain the rumour that Mainline International is propping up Jetstars so called profit ,Ken?
Ços if Jetstar wasn't making all this money and were not so profitable on such low load factors due to all the overpriced muffins they must be selling on board they couldn't dump $30 fares on the market because the ACCC would be straight onto them for predatory pricing?????
Ços if Jetstar wasn't making all this money and were not so profitable on such low load factors due to all the overpriced muffins they must be selling on board they couldn't dump $30 fares on the market because the ACCC would be straight onto them for predatory pricing?????
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Good point Ken and as usual, QF are on an extremely uneven playing field with an Australian government that doesn't give a stuff about protecting local companies unless there is a big buck in it for them. During the GFC for example, China southern and the other big 3 Chinese airlines got a circa 500,000,000RMB hand out from the government, what did QF get from Kev, Juliar and co ? Nothing other than allowing the overseas carriers cart blanche entry to Australia.
I have been delayed in China many times whilst de-icing, either during snow storms or even just morning frost whilst the local carriers (inc CZ) all departed without de-icing. Unfortunately this means jack to the poor old oblivious SLF, but thats what your getting for your money, as I said before, good luck
I have been delayed in China many times whilst de-icing, either during snow storms or even just morning frost whilst the local carriers (inc CZ) all departed without de-icing. Unfortunately this means jack to the poor old oblivious SLF, but thats what your getting for your money, as I said before, good luck
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A recent search on the airfare websites does reveal some very cheap fares from CZ.
The one I like most is a certain premium economy deal.
CZ Sydney to Guangzhou
CZ codeshare with Air France to Paris
then return
CZ codeshare with Air France Paris to Guangzhou
CZ Guangzhou to Sydney
Total price is $2000 return...for Premium Economy.
Now I know CZ has nothing more than an economy seat with more legroom, however to fly Air France isn't that bad a deal in all honestly.
Cheaper than QF/BA economy and you avoid a potential Terminal 3 at Heathrow experience.
The one I like most is a certain premium economy deal.
CZ Sydney to Guangzhou
CZ codeshare with Air France to Paris
then return
CZ codeshare with Air France Paris to Guangzhou
CZ Guangzhou to Sydney
Total price is $2000 return...for Premium Economy.
Now I know CZ has nothing more than an economy seat with more legroom, however to fly Air France isn't that bad a deal in all honestly.
Cheaper than QF/BA economy and you avoid a potential Terminal 3 at Heathrow experience.
