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Regional Airlines holding back Pilots from progressing to the majors

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Regional Airlines holding back Pilots from progressing to the majors

Old 4th Jan 2012, 10:58
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Regional Airlines holding back Pilots from progressing to the majors

Yep,

You read it here folks.

Confirmed via reliable source. There is now such a shortage of crew in a well known regional airline and they are so shit scared of losing their pilots, they have a gentleman's agreement with a major Australian airline to stage their recruitment from a 'company hold file'.

So in affect if you get the job and are successful in the recruitment process, other Pilots will be given start dates over the top of you because they can't keep their crew.

This is absurd, disgusting, immoral and bordering on illegal.

You can't block someone progressing with their career with better terms and conditions for them and their family because you won't pay them what they are worth.

This industry is a joke.

Shame on you.

AFAP, nail them to the bloody wall and off with their heads!

Last edited by Blueskymine; 4th Jan 2012 at 11:23.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 12:30
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The last sentence a ripper!
A terse letter would be the extent of it....... signed sincerely of course!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 12:46
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Now now, a terse letter might be taking things a bit too far.... No, they'll get a frowning of a lifetime; But not too much, lest someone get offended.

Oh hang on, no dispute pilot's are involved....In that case; You'll be lucky to find someone willing to scratch their own @rse.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 12:51
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Lightbulb

Confirmed via reliable source. There is now such a shortage of crew in a well known regional airline and they are so shit scared of losing their pilots, they have a gentleman's agreement with a major Australian airline to stage their recruitment from a 'company hold file'.
Tell them to apply to the competition. QantasLink was once a great training ground for Ansett and then Virgin just as Kendell's was a great training ground for Qantas.

Such is the stupidity of these management types that they can't see that their training costs are probably more when they lose someone to the competition instead of giving them a seniority number, paying them well and then letting them progress to the bigger aircraft.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 13:19
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This sort of stupidity has been going on for years. The alternative to Kegs suggestion is to back yourself and resign and essentially become a 'free agent'
Whilst the common thinking is to never resign from a flying job over the years it is these 'free agents' who pickup the good gigs because it appears that noone in aviation seems to plan ahead if you have done an interview then call them up a few weeks later informing them that you have resigned and are ready for 'immediate start' at anytime.

On saying that if a genuine hiring boom occurred all bets are off and the jet operators will be taking who they want when they want.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 16:15
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All very well Nev, but most of us have bills to pay. Resigning without a definite job to go to is ballsy if you have kids/a mortgage. OK if you're 20 I guess.
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 22:22
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This wouldn't be the same company that is rumored to be about to advertise for DECs' ?, bet that will throw the cat among the pigeons, what of their seniority list ?, what of the company command requirements.

Lucky there isn't two unions in the one workplace competing for membership,,,,,, oh hang on.................
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Old 4th Jan 2012, 23:28
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All true on so many levels. I hope management remain in place long enough to see the final demise so they can take final responsibility for treating professional crew like shite for so long. Its pleasing to see new operators coming on line with new opportunities and I would say to any pilot to seek out those opportunities where your financial and personal requirements work.
Many of us have taken the jump and now flying F330 across the country and loving it
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 00:18
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I take it my Hans Brix video was not appropriate?? "we will be very very angry and write you a letter saying how angry we are"..........

A bit of humor on here sometimes wouldn't hurt, surely.

I appreciate that the issue is a serious one, good luck to those involved.

Also what is an F330??? My old man had a F150 ute once, seen a F350 in the states............
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 01:47
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Why don't you name and shame them???

I think the simple solution is to either negotiate with the crew to keep them, or work with them individually on a mutual time frame.

For instance if my employer said, hey mate, we know you're leaving but we will be in the lurch if you leave to quickly. If you can give us another 6 months until we replace you, we will be very grateful and offer you $xxxx as a token of our appreciation. I would be inclined to work with them for being upfront and forthright.

I know for a fact a general aviation operator did just that recently to keep guys from going to the opposition. They all accepted. It was rumored to be in the vicinity of 20k cash up front.

Food for thought?

I know some operators are reluctant to go outside of their EBAs, but remember an EBA is the minimum conditions you can pay someone. There is nothing stopping you from going beyond it in every way for retention.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 03:53
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Unless of course it's the REX EBA. In that case management see the minimum of the current EBA as too much!

That's the way to hang on to 'em.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 04:15
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Not the first time

There was a gentlemans' agreement between Defence and Qantas to not poach pilots from certain critical roles several years ago. The Minister let it slip when debating pilot retention with a journalist.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 04:34
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They could also do something drastic to solve the problem of un-upgradable FO's, hire from GA!
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 05:20
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And that Krusty is why your airline has done a deal with the airlines.

Don't want to pay them more, don't want to treat them right, so let's shaft their chances of leaving by making them too hard to hire.

For instance with this gentlemans agreement in place, do you think the airline will choose to interview your airlines crew? They will take the guys they can get when they need them no strings attached.

Look at the regionals out there right now. Airnorth, skippers, Rex don't have the crew and can't train them as they don't have the crew to train the crew.

I've heard of guys waiting 9 months to finish their training. Very ordinary to say the least.

Companies are starting to treat pilots as their own resource. They are not. But they will remain loyal to you if you treat and pay them fairly.

They may be able to stop you from leaving quickly, but they can't stop you from resigning

I'd resign.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 05:41
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Love Rumours like this...

Let's say there is a mythical australian regional called RexLink, and an Aussie major airline called Virg-Star.

A senior Rexlink manager has a meeting with the CEO of Virg-Star and suggests a "gentlemens agreement" between them as described in this thread.

The CEO of Virg-Star has a think and says "We're an expanding airline. You want me to potentially weaken my expansion by either not employing successful applicants or delaying their employment. Simply because you can't afford to lose them and that it will put your own flight ops under pressure. Is that right?"

As the senior Rexlink manager nods, the Virg-Star CEO says "Why the f*ck should I? What possible advantage will I get from this agreement? Why should I miss out on experienced regional flight crew and employ less qualified people?"

And there endeth the "gentlemens agreement", IMHO.

DIVOSH!
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 06:04
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The rumours of such "genlemens agreements" have been around since say, Max was a boy!

Last time around there was frantic correspondence between the REX Chief Pilot and his Jetstar counterpart. Rumor has it they are/were perhaps, mates. The only thing that stopped that little episode from becoming terminal for REX, was the GFC. And of course Jetstar's insane hireing practices!

Di_Vosh is right. These guys might think they have each others back, but at the end of the day they are as ruthless towards each other as they are to their own pilot groups.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 06:10
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Personally, I think the agreement not to hire each others staff is an urban myth.

I'll believe it when I see evidence.

The first reason, as stated above, is the various airlines are fierce competitors and unlikely to give a break to anyone else.

The second reason is the the Trade Practices Act prohibits uncompetitive behaviour like this. Eg. the prosecution of Qantas for doing a dodgy deal to try and restrict freight competition.

Yet another urban myth.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 06:13
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Di Vosh while you're observations ring true, this info is from the horses mouth.

I wonder what they offered?

No compete clauses on certain routes with Qantaslink?
Feeder times with regional services to supplement domestic Jetstar services?
Money?
To not tie up with VA?
A pet poodle for AJ?
Fluffy handcuffs and a pony for BB?
To help DH lose his virginity?
NH and CH wearing mankinis while tickling AJs feet with feathers in the toaster?

Very interesting times

Those who have written evidence please send it to the company AFAP rep.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 06:20
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Myth or Not, people are, will, and want to leave Pel-rex! It just means that if such an agreement exists, that airline will miss out on some good guys. There are plenty of other companies that will be looking for good people.

FMC.
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Old 5th Jan 2012, 06:28
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DiVosh,

And what if the two CEOs have the same master ?, a "group" thing ?.
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