Regional Airlines holding back Pilots from progressing to the majors
I think the agreement not to hire each others staff is an urban myth.
On saying that:
1. Owners of GA/Regional airlines tend to over estimate their pulling power in the major airlines in Australia. I remember one GA owner in QLD who threaten people with their careers at a particular regional airline if they dare left before his nominal time frame.
2. I think that even if there was a gentlemen's agreement in place, if there is large expansion, all bets are off.
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The owners of Rex are Singaporean. I'd say with very close ties to the business community and regulatory processes.
Where was the little man trying to setup a premium carrier again?
Smoke and mirrors.
Where was the little man trying to setup a premium carrier again?
Smoke and mirrors.
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Guys,
I love a conspiracy as much as the next Prune reader, but I don't think this one has legs.
Blueskymine
The only question I'd ask then is that from the "regional" horses mouth or the "airline" horses mouth? The "regional" might think that there is a gentlemens agreement but I can think that either the "regional" didn't understand the conversation (i.e. delusional); or there was an agreement but the "airline" might not honour it.
From your comments I'm going to assume you're talking about Rex and J*.
My Opinion: I just can't see it. I can't imagine any offer that they could make that would be financially attractive. J* and Rex don't compete on any routes, Qlink do pretty well on the routes where they do compete, etc, etc.
SDT
There were similar rumours going around in 2007/2008 between Qlink and J* and as far as I'm concerned the same logic applies:
J* was created by Geoff Dixon. Are you telling me that in 2007/2008 GD would threaten the expansion of his 'baby' by agreeing to limit the amount of Eastern/Sunnies pilots wanting to join? Answer: He's not!
Even today, with AJ at the head of the Qantas group. IMHO, there is no way that AJ is going to stop any Qlink pilots transferring to J*. (AFAIK, late last year there were resignations from Sunnies to J*)
DIVOSH!
P.S. Thanks, Psycho Joe et al, for taking the (predictable) opportunity to have a go at the feds.
Funny thing is, last I heard J* pilots are leaving AIPA in droves. Something to do with letting the QF guys into J* and the senior J* FO's now being years away from commands instead of a few months. J* pilots (esp senior FO's) are feeling that AIPA aren't looking after their interests and are looking after ex-QF pilots instead (who'd have ever thought that?
)
D!
I love a conspiracy as much as the next Prune reader, but I don't think this one has legs.
Blueskymine
this info is from the horses mouth.
From your comments I'm going to assume you're talking about Rex and J*.
My Opinion: I just can't see it. I can't imagine any offer that they could make that would be financially attractive. J* and Rex don't compete on any routes, Qlink do pretty well on the routes where they do compete, etc, etc.
SDT
And what if the two CEOs have the same master ?, a "group" thing ?
J* was created by Geoff Dixon. Are you telling me that in 2007/2008 GD would threaten the expansion of his 'baby' by agreeing to limit the amount of Eastern/Sunnies pilots wanting to join? Answer: He's not!
Even today, with AJ at the head of the Qantas group. IMHO, there is no way that AJ is going to stop any Qlink pilots transferring to J*. (AFAIK, late last year there were resignations from Sunnies to J*)
DIVOSH!
P.S. Thanks, Psycho Joe et al, for taking the (predictable) opportunity to have a go at the feds.
Funny thing is, last I heard J* pilots are leaving AIPA in droves. Something to do with letting the QF guys into J* and the senior J* FO's now being years away from commands instead of a few months. J* pilots (esp senior FO's) are feeling that AIPA aren't looking after their interests and are looking after ex-QF pilots instead (who'd have ever thought that?
)D!
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Hmm..
This is not a rumour, this is fact.
But unless you've got it in writing it's hearsay! If you have it in writing then take it to someone (Feds, press, etc.)
DIVOSH!
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My god,
these type of agreements wont be in writing!
The only way you will get them if either a CP/CEO admits it OR someone from HR etc has enough balls to expose it?
Either way it wont happen, I have no doubt that some form of agreement exists at small points in the hiring cycles/expansion of an airline, but agree that if its a large intake and only candidates from one particular airline then they will most likely get the call up.
I still wonder at this exact same scenario for myself when I see MANY pilots go to airlines that I am on hold files for!
Easy solution to that, get on other hold files
these type of agreements wont be in writing!
The only way you will get them if either a CP/CEO admits it OR someone from HR etc has enough balls to expose it?
Either way it wont happen, I have no doubt that some form of agreement exists at small points in the hiring cycles/expansion of an airline, but agree that if its a large intake and only candidates from one particular airline then they will most likely get the call up.
I still wonder at this exact same scenario for myself when I see MANY pilots go to airlines that I am on hold files for!
Easy solution to that, get on other hold files
This is not a rumour, this is fact.
That's not as silly as it sounds.
If a certain Domestic airline really wanted to stick it to a certain Regional airline, maybe for not playing nicely during some recent merger negotiations, then the ideal way of doing that would be to decimate the ranks (of said Regional airline) of it's ATPL holders in order to crew it's fledgeling Turbo-prop operation. One way of eliminating the opposition in one fell swoop! How's that for a conspiracy theory.
Blueskymine, if there is some sort of "agreement", trust me it'll evaporate quicker than an ice cube on a SAAB dash in summer once commercial necessity comes into play. Realistically however, you may find that while Jetstar has fed you the line about helping out REX, it probably has more to do with their crewing dilemas WRT the possible transfering QF pilots, and their own logistical problems. The REX line is just their way of saying they have no F#cking idea what's going on with their crewing at the moment! Of course they're too arrogant to admit that to you.
If a certain Domestic airline really wanted to stick it to a certain Regional airline, maybe for not playing nicely during some recent merger negotiations, then the ideal way of doing that would be to decimate the ranks (of said Regional airline) of it's ATPL holders in order to crew it's fledgeling Turbo-prop operation. One way of eliminating the opposition in one fell swoop! How's that for a conspiracy theory.
Blueskymine, if there is some sort of "agreement", trust me it'll evaporate quicker than an ice cube on a SAAB dash in summer once commercial necessity comes into play. Realistically however, you may find that while Jetstar has fed you the line about helping out REX, it probably has more to do with their crewing dilemas WRT the possible transfering QF pilots, and their own logistical problems. The REX line is just their way of saying they have no F#cking idea what's going on with their crewing at the moment! Of course they're too arrogant to admit that to you.
Thread Starter
I believe it's in writing from HR (to numerous pilots) and with the feds at present.
This is nothing to do with Virgin, lets be clear.
Lets also be clear that Qlink don't want VA to get stronger and would prefer to have REX around. Qlink and rex almost supplement each other on many routes.
This is nothing to do with Virgin, lets be clear.
Lets also be clear that Qlink don't want VA to get stronger and would prefer to have REX around. Qlink and rex almost supplement each other on many routes.
Blueskymine, yes I know it's Jetstar you are talking about, and I did refer to them in the second para of my post. The Virgin/REX thing was just me throwing in a "Reverse" conspiracy theory. Just to spice things up a bit. 
Di_Vosh is right. Give the Feds a call and speak to Lawrie. That may make things clearer. It's probably safe to say that those pilots on the JQ hold file will get the nod sooner or later, once of course Jetstar get their own house in order.
I can confirm however that Jetstar have commited to tell REX when they are about to make firm offers. Whether this reults in them giving REX 28 days notice, or a call on Friday to tell them they expect a start on the Monday! Who knows? An official line from JQ is that "...it's a REX problem, not ours!" That should put the "commitment" into some sort of perspective.
Personally my opinion of Jetstar's T&C's is even lower than that of REX. Good luck, but be careful of what you wish for.
Di_Vosh is right. Give the Feds a call and speak to Lawrie. That may make things clearer. It's probably safe to say that those pilots on the JQ hold file will get the nod sooner or later, once of course Jetstar get their own house in order.
I can confirm however that Jetstar have commited to tell REX when they are about to make firm offers. Whether this reults in them giving REX 28 days notice, or a call on Friday to tell them they expect a start on the Monday! Who knows? An official line from JQ is that "...it's a REX problem, not ours!" That should put the "commitment" into some sort of perspective.
Personally my opinion of Jetstar's T&C's is even lower than that of REX. Good luck, but be careful of what you wish for.
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Blocking Career Progression
I can remember when there were a number of Kendell Airlines pilots who had qualified for entry to Qantas Long Haul prior to the collapse of Ansett. Ansett collapses and of course these guys go scrambling for work with companies such as Eastern (now part of the Qlink system). Once they got into Eastern the interest that QF Longhaul had previously demonstrated ceased. The history is that years ago the Eastern pilots tried to use legal process to force Australian/QF shorthaul into providing them with career progression from the Dash 8 to the jets.The process failed. It would be interesting to find out what percentage of say REX pilots have gone into QF compared to Qlink Dash 8 crew. Yet Jetstar (even though it is owned by QF) has taken on a number or Qlink Dash 8 crew.
