Media rage against unions.

[LT Selfridge]

Stewser89,

I guess that your handle refers to your year of birth rather than your age. If so you have only known about being a Consumer rather than a Citizen.

There's a war on. 'They' have just won a couple of battles. Italy now has an unelected Prime Minister cracking down on the public. Gillard - without any debate or public airing beforehand - has announced a free trade deal with nine other countries throughout Asia.

Time to turn off the cheap consumer products and start paying attention.

[Jack Ranga]

Return to substandard and poor products, protected by the government because it's Australian?

Ya reckon? Had to buy a bit of hardware to finish a few jobs at home. There was exactly ONE product of it's type at that mecca of hardware supply. Three of the 4 screws broke on installation as well as the heads burring.

I'm from a trade background and I can tell you that the vast majority of supplies these days are outright junk. It ends up costing you more to fix this garbage than if a good quality product is used.

Ever wondered how the supermarkets can land an orange from the States cheaper than an orange grown in Aus? You might want to have a look at which countries are protecting which of of it's industries. You also might want to have a look at just who is getting screwed by 'free trade'

[Arnold E]

Return to substandard and poor products, protected by the government because it's Australian?

I would not have thought that QANTAS would previously been considered to have supplied a poor product?? I think that now that some of the work has gone offshore that the overall quality of the product could be seen to have dropped. Just because something is made or done overseas does not necessarily make it better, or for that matter, cheaper in the long run. For instance, if you have to buy 3 of a cheap product as replacements for a more expensive product, the overall expendature may not be less.A bit off track, but as an example, this weekend I drove past what used to be the Hills Industry manufactuing site. I was amazed to see that it is now an empty block. All of Hills stuff is now made overseas and the hundreds of jobs that used to exist in this community are now gone. Do you think that you have a better product now than if it was still manufactured here, I dont think so, I dont know about your part of the world, but in my part there are still thousands of Hills hoists around that were made decades ago, better quality just because its made overseas? I dont think so. And let's say we move all of QANTAS work overseas, how is that going to help us here in Oz?? If I want to fly on a cheap airline and take the risk that I am going to get to my destination without incident, then I can already choose to do that. Once all the jobs are gone from Q I personally dont see how that helps me as a citizen of Australia. To those that say, the world is changing and lets just ship everything offshore, please explain how that helps me. To those of you who say I should cut my wages and condtions, please explain how that helps me. I have fought all my life for better conditions not worse ones, and by the way, I dont intend to stop any time soon.

Rant over (for now)

[Lex Talionis]

I hear an interesting comment from one jour no that this was less about the current stoush between Qantas and some it's employees and more about a politically motivated premeditated attack on the current industrial laws in Australia by the employers.

One of the main points of Work Choices that John Howard wanted was a system whereby both parties could work things out together without or at least as a last case scenario whereby the parties would be forced to go to arbitration and have the government involved.

FWA has basically the same intention where arbitration and government intervention is the last resort and certainly not the favoured option.

Gillard was staying out of it but what did both NSW and Vic Liberal State leaders and Tony Abbott want?????

This to me looks more like a politically motivated action utilising the current industrial claims as a contrivance for a more deep seated ambition.

[theheadmaster]

Absolutely Lex. Even the song sheet was the same, with liberals and Qantas both stating that the government should have used s431 of the FWA. In fact, I would not be surprised if the QF action was structured specifically to try to force the government to use that clause. If that had happened, the result would probably been a judicial review of the Ministerial declaration, just like what happened in the 'Malaysian Solution' High Court case. The outcome would probably have been destabilising for the government. That would have been good for Abbott and Qantas, both of whom want a return to Work Choices (by a different name though).

For LT Selfridge, I am not attacking your views, though I note that Prime Ministers are not directly elected by the people. In Mario Monti's case, he is a permanent member of Italy's Senate, so I guess that you are correct there as he does not face the burden of elections. As for the free trade agreement, the executive arm of the Australian government is responsible for, among other things, international relations, diplomacy, national security, treaty making, war and peace. There is no requirement for approval by the Parliament, let alone having to discuss with 'the people'.

[gobbledock]

It may have escaped your attention, but the war on working people by the 1% is worldwide. With a little luck, you will see industry protectionism reassert itself starting around 2012 if the few forces of good, that haven't been bought out, fail in their attempts to keep economic policy sane.

Spot on... It may be 1% of humanity that benefit at the expense of the rest of the population and hold all the money, but they are a minority to the 99% of the world who cop it in the a#s and are starting to fight back. The '1% Occupation group' is only a small rumbling from beneath the social divide. I would say that if the worlds power players think it is just a minority who are fighting back against a corrupt system, you are seeing the tip of the iceberg, not what lays beneath the surface.

Big corporations, wealthy executives and bottom feeding politicians need to remember one thing - The 99% know where to come looking for resources, food, anything of value, when this current system finally collapses, so I hope you have strong padlocks and a hidden cave somewhere. Saddam was pulled out of a pit, Gadaffi out of a sewer pipe, appropriate finale's for parasites who screwed their people into oblivion while squirelling away billions and billions and protecting the elite. Western societies will follow the same path. You can only push people so far....... tick tock

[HotDog]

gobbledock,

I'm sure you have the solution! Would it be called Socialism by any chance?

[theheadmaster]

Socialism is not a dirty word

[Acute Instinct]

Hot Dog????

Hot Dog, and your solution is? More of the same perhaps? Work choices? Come on, we know it, but want to here it......

[rh200]

Socialism is not a dirty word

It is for me, the system we have now isn't perfect, far from it, going by history I'd rather stick to what we have.

[Tankengine]

Things always change - it is simply how that we have to influence.

[theheadmaster]

By 'we' I guess you mean Australia? Socialism/capitalism are two extremes, but there is a grey area between. 'We' do/did embrace some socialist concepts, while the USA is more capitalist than us. Social medicine, public ownership of essential services etc are examples of more socialist ideas. Industrial laws that address the power imbalance between labor and production is a socialist concept. Pure capitalism is greed based and the result is what we are seeing now with the 99%-1% arguments. Adding some socialist ideas to the mix balances out competing interests by adding social responsibility. Some of the most liveable countries in the world are socialist-leaning. A nation that is socialist based but now introducing some capitalism to the mix is China. Comparing China to USA will be interesting in the future regarding opportunity and wealth. Note that socialism does not necessarily exclude democracy.

Socialism not necessarily a dirty word.

[FlareArmed]

Miranda Devine you are an absolute disgrace.

That might be a bit harsh; she wrote a particularly insightful (anti-AJ) article about Qantas in the Telegraph earlier this year.

[DutchRoll]

Miranda Devine is an enigma. Once in a blue moon, almost as if by bizarre accident, she lets slip an opinion piece that has had some intelligent thought applied to it.

The rest of the time she just writes complete crap.

Bolt (and partners-in-crime Akerman and Albrechtsen) is just completely barking mad. His "facts" rarely resemble the common dictionary definition of that word. A Federal Court judge even recently ruled that to be the case, though we know enough about him that enshrining it in law was probably unnecessary. A bit like coming to the realisation that water is wet.

[gobbledock]

Marxism

I'm sure you have the solution! Would it be called Socialism by any chance?

Call it what you wish. I am blue collar to the bone. I have done well in life with complete thanks to getting my hands dirty. I am pro union, and anti anyone or anything that promotes screwing the average human/the little bloke, which includes but is not limited to governments, corporate executives and any other influential capitalist rapists and trough dwelling parasites who sleep easy while shi#ting over fellow human beings.
As an example, I would rather gorge out an eye than support somebody like Harvey Norman's and buy their product. I would rather donate money to a charitable organisation in Ethiopia (which I do) than give my money to some political party or top up the Catholic church's coffers. I am not bagging these entities, simply stating my view.
If it means one day bearing arms and ripping down a regime that holds it's people hostage in any manner then I will be there! Enough is enough. The world is screaming out for change, and changes are coming whether people like it or not, you can blame Capitalism in part for that, along with corporate greed, government corruption and cronyism. Rome will burn and when it starts it is going to be monumentous. We will be inflicted with untold pain but the long term gain will be worth it.

HotDog, I am guessing that you actually believe that we in Australia are living in an actual living, breathing Democracy too? I wonder what your thoughts will be as Gillard and co start pumping billions of OUR taxpayer money into bailing out Europe who are collapsing due to corporate greed, flawed monetary policy and government mismanagement and corruption? Sound like a fair deal HotDog? Get used to it, that is OUR democracy, where government do as they please when they please without thought or representing the will of the people.