Are qf shorthaul careers safe?
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Are qf shorthaul careers safe?
With all the hoopla surrounding the long haul pilots at the moment I'd like to get the opinion of you guys about the security and long term prospects of those of us on the qf shorthaul award.
I know it's conjecture at this stage but do you perceive shorthaul qf careers to be safer due to the fact we are not competing with Asian labour rates?
Or is it possible for jitconnict to eventually fly all qantas 737 routes and force us out also?
I know it's conjecture at this stage but do you perceive shorthaul qf careers to be safer due to the fact we are not competing with Asian labour rates?
Or is it possible for jitconnict to eventually fly all qantas 737 routes and force us out also?
Last edited by ejectx3; 9th Nov 2011 at 02:56.
The 737 is a huge money spinner for Qantas, and part of that is the short haul award. Compared to the long haul award it's a dream for the company, I can't see it changing much in the next negotiations. The company may even try to put more domestic operated aircraft types on the SH award. Interesting times. Of course there is the Jetconnect and Jetstar factor.
Your job is secure...
Your job as a pilot is secure for many years to come. People such as me will continue to need to fly, and will want a meat-based guidance system up front to point us in the right direction.
But I would be nice to the Chief Pilots at Virgin and Tiger if I were you...
Anyone who has lost a battle with an automatic teller, or ever owned a home computer, is unlikely to knowingly board an aircraft that does not have a pilot in it, and in control of it.
But our willingness to book on Qantas is not so high. I'm in the air in about three hours, and I wish it wasn't Qantas. If there was any other option, it wouldn't be.
Not so much because of industrial action, or the lock-out. More to do with old, dirty, noisy aircraft; seats that are designed to be uncomfortable, IFE that doesn't work, and cabin service from people who would rather not be there.
I can't imagine why any company would specifically design its product to be unpleasant for its customers. They obviously want us to go away...
So I wouldn't set your heart on "retiring" from Qantas, if I were you :-)
But I would be nice to the Chief Pilots at Virgin and Tiger if I were you...
Anyone who has lost a battle with an automatic teller, or ever owned a home computer, is unlikely to knowingly board an aircraft that does not have a pilot in it, and in control of it.
But our willingness to book on Qantas is not so high. I'm in the air in about three hours, and I wish it wasn't Qantas. If there was any other option, it wouldn't be.
Not so much because of industrial action, or the lock-out. More to do with old, dirty, noisy aircraft; seats that are designed to be uncomfortable, IFE that doesn't work, and cabin service from people who would rather not be there.
I can't imagine why any company would specifically design its product to be unpleasant for its customers. They obviously want us to go away...
So I wouldn't set your heart on "retiring" from Qantas, if I were you :-)
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When do the short-haul negotiations begin? Next year?
OK... shortly we can expect to see press releases that short haul pilots are in cloud cuckoo land if they expect their outrageously expensive rates not to be aligned with overseas operators (like jetconnect).
This will be because Short-haul is losing money after the passenger downturn of 2011.
"Qantas short haul pilots need to realise that we must compete on a world market, particularly with New Zealand. Also, Tiger pilots earned 98% less than the top Qantas 737 pilot, who also flies only approx 4 hours per year (margin of error +/- 900 hours). These rogue kamikazes will not be permitted to put a veto on change and halt the inevitable rise of our bonuses."
Am I wrong?
OK... shortly we can expect to see press releases that short haul pilots are in cloud cuckoo land if they expect their outrageously expensive rates not to be aligned with overseas operators (like jetconnect).
This will be because Short-haul is losing money after the passenger downturn of 2011.
"Qantas short haul pilots need to realise that we must compete on a world market, particularly with New Zealand. Also, Tiger pilots earned 98% less than the top Qantas 737 pilot, who also flies only approx 4 hours per year (margin of error +/- 900 hours). These rogue kamikazes will not be permitted to put a veto on change and halt the inevitable rise of our bonuses."
Am I wrong?
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As early as 1990, a number of people with even a modicum of foresight were commenting that, after the Ansett and (then) Australian Airlines managements' undoubted overwhelming success in destroying the domestic pilots union, it would only be a matter of time before those same managements set about reducing the terms and conditions of both the international pilots and their highly paid newly-employed domestic pilots.
Managements' one error was to fall into the trap of believing their own propaganda during the head to head with the domestic pilots in that year we dare not mention here. In telling the public how few hours the average domestic pilot flew per annum, they set the bar for overtime to kick in for the new hires far, far lower than they needed to as they attempted to entice pilots to join or re-join the new 'lean and mean' domestic airlines. As much as they would have loved to renege on those (in their eyes) far too generous terms, they were stuck with them, for to have reneged, even three or four years down the track, would have been... shall we say 'industrially perilous'.
The way out was to create leaner, meaner (ie, LCC) versions of themselves. Australian Airlines (aka Qantas Domestic) created Jet*, which has slowly but inexorably intruded into both the Qantas domestic and international operations, with any growth in either division going to the far cheaper to operate Jet* rather than to the more expensive (dare i call them) legacy divisions.
I think it's only a matter of time until QF management reduces both Qantas Domestic and Qantas International into such small small 'rumps', (necessary - in management's eyes - only as long as they are tied by industrial agreements with staff unions or by government legislation), that those rumps can be safely (and quietly) shelved. then they'll probably re-brand Jet* as Qantas and Bob (or should that be Alan?)'s your uncle.
It's all been tried before. Look at the history of USALPA in the 1920s and 1930s. The Alan Joyce of the day back then could actually fly an aeroplane, but he was an equally divisive figure. His name was Eddie Rikenbacker.
Does that answer your question?
Managements' one error was to fall into the trap of believing their own propaganda during the head to head with the domestic pilots in that year we dare not mention here. In telling the public how few hours the average domestic pilot flew per annum, they set the bar for overtime to kick in for the new hires far, far lower than they needed to as they attempted to entice pilots to join or re-join the new 'lean and mean' domestic airlines. As much as they would have loved to renege on those (in their eyes) far too generous terms, they were stuck with them, for to have reneged, even three or four years down the track, would have been... shall we say 'industrially perilous'.
The way out was to create leaner, meaner (ie, LCC) versions of themselves. Australian Airlines (aka Qantas Domestic) created Jet*, which has slowly but inexorably intruded into both the Qantas domestic and international operations, with any growth in either division going to the far cheaper to operate Jet* rather than to the more expensive (dare i call them) legacy divisions.
I think it's only a matter of time until QF management reduces both Qantas Domestic and Qantas International into such small small 'rumps', (necessary - in management's eyes - only as long as they are tied by industrial agreements with staff unions or by government legislation), that those rumps can be safely (and quietly) shelved. then they'll probably re-brand Jet* as Qantas and Bob (or should that be Alan?)'s your uncle.
It's all been tried before. Look at the history of USALPA in the 1920s and 1930s. The Alan Joyce of the day back then could actually fly an aeroplane, but he was an equally divisive figure. His name was Eddie Rikenbacker.
Does that answer your question?
Capt Kremin, you are not factoring in the cohesive industrial collective that is the SH Pilot body
Unfortunately the self serving types at AIPA dont really care . They dont mind if the pay at Jetstar is half for basically doing the same job , because theyre not affected.
If AIPA cant increase the conditions in the subsidiaries then their own conditions can only go backwards or more flying to Jetstar.
Shorthaul guys have a lot to lose because of the greedy few at the top.
Watch Qantas argue in court that pay and conditions at Jetstar are acceptable to all pilots and should be the benchmark for new negotiations.
If AIPA cant increase the conditions in the subsidiaries then their own conditions can only go backwards or more flying to Jetstar.
Shorthaul guys have a lot to lose because of the greedy few at the top.
Watch Qantas argue in court that pay and conditions at Jetstar are acceptable to all pilots and should be the benchmark for new negotiations.
they set the bar for overtime to kick in
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Fatmike, shows you didly squat. 58 hours is for 12 calendar months, 53 hours is for 28 day rostering.
We pay enough says Virgin Australia CEO
Here's a challenge for you FM. Here are the 3 EBA
Qantas
Virgin
Jetstar - Jetstar roster build
Go look at the EBA's and disprove Borghetti's statement. Please show us your work.
Mr Borghetti says there was a 5 per cent difference between the salary of a Boeing 737 pilot flying a Virgin Australia aircraft and an identical pilot flying the same aircraft for Qantas.
Here's a challenge for you FM. Here are the 3 EBA
Qantas
Virgin
Jetstar - Jetstar roster build
Go look at the EBA's and disprove Borghetti's statement. Please show us your work.
It's 58. It's easy to read the EBA you know.
pay at Jetstar is half for basically doing the same job
Well, it's simply not the case.
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Today Qantas is bigger domestically than it has ever been. It has 45 per cent of market share domestically. It is the most profitable carrier operating domestically and we are growing it quite considerably.
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If Qantas puts the short haul award pay rate in the firing line then there will be a mass exodus. Everyones had enough. Going somewhere else is the hot topic and being part of the Red Q crap in Asia is for most the last place they will go. Stupid short term management is already starting to bite. Virgin is being actively considered by several F/Os that I know. They dont want to go overseas and will not consider the J* alternative due to the untrustworthy nature of the management and there contemptuous manipulation called market forces. If Qantas doesn't see the looming issue then they deserve what they get. How many pilots to retire in the next couple of years plus resignations for more rewarding pastures will create a shortage that will ensure that the short haul contract remains untouched. Extrapolate out the retirement/resignations data. The ball will be in our court. I have no doubt.