QANTAS Pilots Distracted

[Keg]

The reality is that both ATC and pilots don't spend enough time observing each other at work to fully comprehend workload and other issues that are going on. Familiarisation flights should be mandatory each year for an ATCO and an hour each in the TWR, APP, DEP should be mandatory for pilots each year also.

[Mozzie75]

ATC and Pilot Famil

Keg...couldn't agree more with the joint famil concept. Unfortunately it is one of those things which gets left behind when rosters are tightened and rostering holes need filling. I still make the effort every 12 months or so to complete a famil flight (Emirates and Virgin in the last few years). Hopefully Qantas (including all "Qantas-Group" airlines) will revise their policy to allow ATC to re-join a famil program. There are plenty of times when I have been sitting down the back wondering why the travel time couldn't have been spent doing some famil up the front.

[framer]

That instruction at 200 FT AGL as you have described it is ridiculous. As PIC I would have been ignoring it as best I could, but left wondering afterwards if the controller had any concept of what is going on in the cockpit for the last 500-1000 FT.

That sums up my reaction perfectly. I contemplated giving him a friendly call to explain how I felt but by the time I got to the hotel was ready for bed and didn't, I probably should have. The interesting thing for me was that my initial reaction was to asses my chart and discuss it etc before I realised that the real priorities were actually elsewhere.Famils should be the norm.

[amos2]

Excuses, excuses, excuses!!...

you lot really are giving professional aviation a super bad name!

Wot' say we go back to basics:

Lesson 1: Aviate..Navigate..Communicate.

There, that wasn't too hard was it?

[maui]

what do qantas sops require ?

Does anyone know when the GA was initiated? I am loathe to go on the assertions of a journo, but if the report has any accuracy I relation to the initiation of the GA, something is seriously out of kilter.

The report suggests that the GA was initiated at about 500 feet in response to an aural warning. The two possible aural warnings are, landing flap selection with gear up or GPS " too low gear".

Bearing in mind that the checklist cannot be completed before the final flap is in position, do the Qantas sops allow selection of final flap at altitudes below 1000 feet, and/or landing checks to be completed below 1000 feet.

If so have these been approved by CASA? Inept as CASA may be, I'd bet my leftie that they would not countenance such a late procedure.

So I must assume ( hope) the report is factually incorrect.

Maui

[amos2]

Err! Hang on, I forgot to allow for you Gen X & Gen Y's. ( Is that really what you call yourselves?)

So, Lets make that: Aviate, Navigate, Communicate, mitigate and add a bit of crm?

[nomorecatering]

A non-pilot friend of mine has just read this thread, her comment was "what a lot of self righteous gits........pilots occasionally make mistakes, but the system caught it. Learn from it and get over it".

Quoted word for word.

A pretty cluey lady i must say.

[kellykelpie]

Uh Oh, Amos2 has forgotten his pills again

[ohallen]

NMC,

Is that friend of yours going to the RAT AGM...she may be good value and make a lot more sense than what is likely to occur other than Mrs Austen.

[BP2197]

A good operator learns from their mistakes, a true professional learns from thier mistakes and those of others. I think this discussion has merit.

[framer]

heh heh, Amos cracks me up I like flying with guys like you Amos (there aren't many of them ) cause when you f#ck it up it's kinda satisfying to pick you up on your errors

[RATpin]

Framer,In my experience,just stay quiet-they always dig a hole for themselves and need "saving"

[Lookleft]

Just to nitpick the report itself it is suggesting that the PIC had a total of 16500 hours of which 15000 were as PIC and 594 total time on type. Since when has QF offered DEC to non-type rated pilots?

[Sunny Boyle]

Ya, Akali I can't believed that it indeed happened! Gremlins in the works?

[Jack Ranga]

I had SY ATC chat away about how he wanted us to take exit A3 instead of the high speed and give reasons why etc when we were at 200agl only about a month ago.

You are within your rights to ignore this. Most of us wouldn't attempt instructions of this sort at this time.

The reality is that both ATC and pilots don't spend enough time observing each other at work to fully comprehend workload and other issues that are going on. Familiarisation flights should be mandatory each year for an ATCO and an hour each in the TWR, APP, DEP should be mandatory for pilots each year also.

You would need to staff both organisations to allow this to happen. I haven't been on a famil flight for over 10 years now. Unfortunately the empire builders in our organisation would see this as an ATC having a bludge day.

Back in 'the good ole days' a trainee ATC would spend a week or two on airline attachment. That means getting up at 4am and doing full days with the flight crew. And when you fellas come in they pick a nice cosy time for you to have a look not when it's flat knacker. Apparently we aren't mature enough to have you plug in beside us while we are working the peak traffic.

It's not hard to organise or run this, it just takes commitment and unfortunately costs a bit of coin. Coin that would come out of a bonus.