Qantas-October 28th
Qantas will now use the AGM. Watch out for new ads in the press explaining to the public that the company now has the support of the shareholders. Watch them turn the heat up even more. Sadly, the misinformation will start swaying public sentiment. Joe average wont care
To Joe Average Qantas is no longer important. To him all the other airlines are as safe or safer than Qantas (with all those engines blowing up). Qantas is too expensive so Joe flies Jetstar. Joe forgets that Qantas is made up of workers, just like him. And Joe's been told all these Qantas workers earn heaps more than him so why should he care?
To Joe Average Qantas is no longer important. To him all the other airlines are as safe or safer than Qantas (with all those engines blowing up). Qantas is too expensive so Joe flies Jetstar. Joe forgets that Qantas is made up of workers, just like him. And Joe's been told all these Qantas workers earn heaps more than him so why should he care?
Ask the following questions of yourselves;
-Who are the institutional investors ?
-Where do they get their money from ?
-Why do they vote the way they do ?
-Where is your superannuation invested in ?
-Suggest your superannuation fund vote in the interest of those whose weekly/fortnightly/monthly cash additions employs them.
and
Be prepared for next year
-Who are the institutional investors ?
-Where do they get their money from ?
-Why do they vote the way they do ?
-Where is your superannuation invested in ?
-Suggest your superannuation fund vote in the interest of those whose weekly/fortnightly/monthly cash additions employs them.
and
Be prepared for next year
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The biggest joke on qantas was putting a leprechaun in charge of the airline
when a Smurf or Womble would have been a much smarter choice
, what a looney country australia has become
when a Smurf or Womble would have been a much smarter choice, what a looney country australia has become
I know of a perfect candidate:
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AWBC
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The owners of the company, and the hidden hand of globalists have spoken. The owners approve of the current strategy overwhelmingly.
Plutarch - 'The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.'
Greek Myth - 'The next day, Midas, woke up eager to see if his wish would become true. He extended his arm touching a small table that immediately turned into gold. Midas jumped with happiness! He then touched a chair, the carpet, the door, his bathtub, a table and so he kept on running in his madness all over his palace until he got exhausted and happy at the same time! He sat at the table to have breakfast and took a rose between his hands to smell its fragrance. When he touched it, the rose became gold. "I will have to absorb the fragrance without touching the roses, I suppose," he thought in disappointment. Without even thinking, he ate a grape but it also turned into gold! The same happened with a slice of bread and a glass of water. Suddenly, he started to sense fear.'
Judges 16:29 - 'And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.'
Don't reward the 'owner's' decision - let them reap what they have sown and hold your heads high.
Plutarch - 'The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one that gave him joy of his victory that one more such victory would utterly undo him. For he had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.'
Greek Myth - 'The next day, Midas, woke up eager to see if his wish would become true. He extended his arm touching a small table that immediately turned into gold. Midas jumped with happiness! He then touched a chair, the carpet, the door, his bathtub, a table and so he kept on running in his madness all over his palace until he got exhausted and happy at the same time! He sat at the table to have breakfast and took a rose between his hands to smell its fragrance. When he touched it, the rose became gold. "I will have to absorb the fragrance without touching the roses, I suppose," he thought in disappointment. Without even thinking, he ate a grape but it also turned into gold! The same happened with a slice of bread and a glass of water. Suddenly, he started to sense fear.'
Judges 16:29 - 'And Samson took hold of the two middle pillars upon which the house stood, and on which it was borne up, of the one with his right hand, and of the other with his left.'
Don't reward the 'owner's' decision - let them reap what they have sown and hold your heads high.
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let them reap what they have sown and hold your heads high.
Here is a piece from the AGM, sorry for the quality but the sound is OK..
Plus Lateline's version of events for those who missed it.
.
Last edited by TIMA9X; 28th Oct 2011 at 17:45.
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Well, where to next?
The senate select collect committee fizzed; the campaign at the AGM fizzed; Messrs Purvinas,Sheldon,White, Somerville and Jackson couldn't lay a glove on them; all votes showing approx 96-98% in favour and the rest against or abstaining gave clear indication of where the backing of the shareholders really lies - employees using their handful of free shares counted for nought; an 85 year old raving eccentric is the noisiest of the non union shareholder representatives to speak; Jackson should have gone to bed after working all night and let Woodward do the talking because his bumbling rambling speech with all its ums and ahs and his failed smart ar$e point to Clifford about turning left instead of right or was it right instead of left when he boards an aircraft might have made its mark if he didn't get his aircraft and seating classes screwed up; at least the man from the ASA sounded considered and articulate - he came across as one who had carefully considered all of his questions and points and was able to put them across succintly not that it made any difference to the votes and he made the union talking heads look as though they'd been to the same debating school as Anthony Mundine and a number of rugby league players attended.
Where to next? Being buoyed by the cheering classes on this forum and others just won't do it. It's like being told by your father that you played well and "done good" to encourage you when in reality you had a shocker of a game.
The senate select collect committee fizzed; the campaign at the AGM fizzed; Messrs Purvinas,Sheldon,White, Somerville and Jackson couldn't lay a glove on them; all votes showing approx 96-98% in favour and the rest against or abstaining gave clear indication of where the backing of the shareholders really lies - employees using their handful of free shares counted for nought; an 85 year old raving eccentric is the noisiest of the non union shareholder representatives to speak; Jackson should have gone to bed after working all night and let Woodward do the talking because his bumbling rambling speech with all its ums and ahs and his failed smart ar$e point to Clifford about turning left instead of right or was it right instead of left when he boards an aircraft might have made its mark if he didn't get his aircraft and seating classes screwed up; at least the man from the ASA sounded considered and articulate - he came across as one who had carefully considered all of his questions and points and was able to put them across succintly not that it made any difference to the votes and he made the union talking heads look as though they'd been to the same debating school as Anthony Mundine and a number of rugby league players attended.
Where to next? Being buoyed by the cheering classes on this forum and others just won't do it. It's like being told by your father that you played well and "done good" to encourage you when in reality you had a shocker of a game.
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Well Steve, if that is representatative of the quality and accuracy of your predictions of outcomes, it's no wonder your campaign is where it is.
My reading of it puts you in the same boat as Brain McCarthy/AFAP, BernieWillingale/NSW Train Drivers/, Pat Mackie/AWU Mt Isa mines, Coombes from the Wharfies, various names from the coal miners unions, various names from the bus drivers unions, Norm Gallagher/Vic BLF. All had a few victories along the way but in the end pulled the tail of the tiger once too often and they and their members ended in tears so to speak. The union leaders ended up in oblivion.
My reading of it puts you in the same boat as Brain McCarthy/AFAP, BernieWillingale/NSW Train Drivers/, Pat Mackie/AWU Mt Isa mines, Coombes from the Wharfies, various names from the coal miners unions, various names from the bus drivers unions, Norm Gallagher/Vic BLF. All had a few victories along the way but in the end pulled the tail of the tiger once too often and they and their members ended in tears so to speak. The union leaders ended up in oblivion.
Outcomes
After all of the smoke and noise has been removed from the scene, the task at hand remains the same; how to manage the fratricide being conducted by management against it's staff while achieving the change necessary to compete in a mature industry that has arguably achieved zero average economic value state.
The continued proposal to offshore the program to SEA given the evidence of Jetstar Pacific's performance raises concern of whether the current management has any additional play in the game book other than that indicated to be a failure; doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results was characterised by Einstein as being an indication of insanity.
QFA has both weaknesses and strengths in competing in the global market, but the current state of affairs is going to erode any strengths that remain. The timeframe for a successful resolution to the impasse of the current management and the workforce is probably critical insofar as the loss of goodwill is going to be corrosive over the medium term. (The less said about the short term the better...)
Continuing the existing position will result in severe damage to QFA, accepting the managements faulty program to become a Singapore airline instead of an australian one is provably value losing, and the final remedy remains an LBO of the airline, and a sacking of the upper management and board.
Alternatively, departing the fix is a really good idea. The opportunities for employment in other companies is variable over time, and the fallout of the industrial activity will retain some stench for future employment.
This is your company, decide if it is worth fighting for. The 28th October should stand as testament that no one else is going to fix your problem for you, your staff need to get proactive, and the timing is critical.
good luck.
PS: How fortunate is Virgin, to first have Ansett management, and then Qantas management. Wow, Kerry Packer said you only get one Bond in your life, apparently Virgin is far more fortunate than the late Kerry was...
The continued proposal to offshore the program to SEA given the evidence of Jetstar Pacific's performance raises concern of whether the current management has any additional play in the game book other than that indicated to be a failure; doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results was characterised by Einstein as being an indication of insanity.
QFA has both weaknesses and strengths in competing in the global market, but the current state of affairs is going to erode any strengths that remain. The timeframe for a successful resolution to the impasse of the current management and the workforce is probably critical insofar as the loss of goodwill is going to be corrosive over the medium term. (The less said about the short term the better...)
Continuing the existing position will result in severe damage to QFA, accepting the managements faulty program to become a Singapore airline instead of an australian one is provably value losing, and the final remedy remains an LBO of the airline, and a sacking of the upper management and board.
Alternatively, departing the fix is a really good idea. The opportunities for employment in other companies is variable over time, and the fallout of the industrial activity will retain some stench for future employment.
This is your company, decide if it is worth fighting for. The 28th October should stand as testament that no one else is going to fix your problem for you, your staff need to get proactive, and the timing is critical.
good luck.
PS: How fortunate is Virgin, to first have Ansett management, and then Qantas management. Wow, Kerry Packer said you only get one Bond in your life, apparently Virgin is far more fortunate than the late Kerry was...
Last edited by fdr; 28th Oct 2011 at 23:12.
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Great question from Steve : Why are politicians given gifts of I pads and Penfolds Grange ?. Joyce's response i.e. "we give all our high value customers gifts it's what all airlines do ..........." seems to forget one essential point. The Australian tax payer pays for the politicians tickets. When the politicians start paying for their own seats they may be entitled to the companys largesse.
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A good sum up of the AGM proceedings from Ben Sandilands at 'Plane Talking':
Qantas, unions engage in fiery shareholder meeting in Sydney | Plane Talking
Qantas, unions engage in fiery shareholder meeting in Sydney | Plane Talking
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Sad to say, the public at large really don't care about Qantas as much as the unions or Qantas would like to think. There is adequate competition both domestically and internationally for the travelling public to shrug its collective shoulders and choose another airline. I'm not siding with anyone here, but the dispute has much more relevance and consequence for the parties involved - the public are, by and large, disinterested.
That said, Qantas has to come up with a more efficient business model otherwise it won't survive. I'm not convinced enough people apart from the main players care if Qantas survives or not. If they don't, it'll be sad, but the void will be filled, life will go on. The displaced workers and management will likely get jobs with the Qantas replacement, probably at a significantly lower rate of pay.
Alan Joyce's pay rise announcement at this difficult stage of proceedings was an apalling lack of judgement at best and unbelievably stupid and insensitve at worst.
The Union's call for job security and a pay rise is equally apalling and, to be frank, unrealistic.
This is a situation from which there will be no real winners, except maybe in the longer term, the travelling public.
That said, Qantas has to come up with a more efficient business model otherwise it won't survive. I'm not convinced enough people apart from the main players care if Qantas survives or not. If they don't, it'll be sad, but the void will be filled, life will go on. The displaced workers and management will likely get jobs with the Qantas replacement, probably at a significantly lower rate of pay.
Alan Joyce's pay rise announcement at this difficult stage of proceedings was an apalling lack of judgement at best and unbelievably stupid and insensitve at worst.
The Union's call for job security and a pay rise is equally apalling and, to be frank, unrealistic.
This is a situation from which there will be no real winners, except maybe in the longer term, the travelling public.
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Originally Posted by clotted
......all votes showing approx 96-98% in favour
It's the power of institutional investor votes, versus the common/garden variety shareholder. Look at the breakdown and you realise why the percentages are the way they are.
That, and of course the fact that the institutional investors look at it from a very narrow viewpoint. If Qantas sacked 35,000 workers tomorrow and upped and moved its entire operations to Myanmar under a special deal with the ruling military Junta, it wouldn't bother the institutions in the slightest as long as Joyce told them it was all cool and Qantas would be highly profitable once he could farm out all the unskilled jobs to child labour. $ is the bottom line for institutions, nothing else.
Heck even if Qantas went bankrupt the institutions aren't going to lose too much sleep. They'll carve up the assets, sell them to get a few cents back in the dollar, and move on. It wasn't their personal money. It's other people's money, savings, super, etc.
Cynical eh? That's what listening to Australian business-person like yourself does to an average person.
Evertonian
Joyce had a real opportunity to take the moral high ground with this pay rise. He could have played the victim of the 'nasty union types' and foregone his boost in income saying things like 'For the good of the company & to set an example...' blah, blah, blah...but he chose the money.
He's just given the unions free ammunition...beggars belief! I had no real say or opinion in the current industrial action. QF isn't high on my interests, but after that vote went through...stick it up 'em!
He's just given the unions free ammunition...beggars belief! I had no real say or opinion in the current industrial action. QF isn't high on my interests, but after that vote went through...stick it up 'em!
'dark leadership'
....
....
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Sad to say, the public at large really don't care about Qantas as much as the unions or Qantas would like to think.
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Re above post.. and the aircraft they are sitting on, recently released from a third party maintenance provider, hasn't been inspected by an engineer for 2 days... I find it hard to see how "the travelling public will be the winner in the long term".
This is a situation from which there will be no real winners, except maybe in the longer term, the travelling public.
Last edited by Hugh Mungous; 29th Oct 2011 at 05:26.
GT wrote his usual 
in The West today.
in The West today.
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Oh how times have changed in the course of a weekend . None so blind as those that did not see the lock out coming . And they think they are soooooo smart . MMMMMMMMMMM
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Go Jack Tilburn
Well now some time has passed, I find it interesting to look at the AGM and what was said considering Joyce grounded the airline the next day. It feels like it was months ago. In reality, a lot has happened in three weeks. Go Jack Tilburn, for those who missed it!
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