Jetstar worker quit over conditions, safety concerns
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There is no law requiring Colgan to have met the same level of training as CO. As long as minimum FAA standards are met.
Honest question, as the only stuff I know about US law comes from watching Law and Order.
In Australia, my understanding is that if you run a company and someone gets hurt or killed, while your training and procedures may not have actually contravened any laws, if the resulting Coronial Inquest goes through you like a dose of salts and finds your procedures were wanting, you may face criminal charges. Again, happy to be proven wrong as I'm no expert, but I know both incidents below put the wind up dive operators.
There have been a couple of fatal scuba diving accidents recently where this has happened. One was in Queensland where the instructor was found to have no case to answer. She still had to face a committal and it was suggested that the company were deficient in their equipment maintenance. Given that the victim was foreign, it will be interesting to see if any civil action comes from it. Me, I'd be suing their butts off.
'No honeymoon killer' defence clears dive instructor Yuri Bonning of manslaughter charges | Courier Mail
The second was in Victoria, where the dive company was fined for failing to ensure safety.
Parents win compensation after son's tragic dive | Herald Sun
My point is, both these companies probably argued 'hey we're not breaking any laws' but they both ended up in court after fatalities (they're also both now out of business). If there is an incident or accident, a company's training records and standards are put under the legal blowtorch. In regards to training, duty hours and other workplace conditions, good and safe practice is not just about staying within the law, but protecting yourself in the event of an accident, both from legal action and really bad publicity.
Reactive rather than proactive, but there you go.
Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 30th Sep 2011 at 21:32.
Lizzy is correct, QF had (not sure if still do as do not fly for them any more) a 3 day PER-SIN, SIN-PER-SIN, SIN-PER pattern (shuttle done with 4 seats in the cabin which rarely got used and at most 1 hour at a time to bolt down some food) which averaged 12.5hrs but regularly blew out to 14hr (ok under the EBA which was 16 with delay)
and the much hated PER-CGK-PER back of the clock (with no 'legal' crew rest, often taken by sneaky use of a free row of seats in shifts of two, while the pilots paxed back with a new lot picked up in CGK operating)
Eventually we got a taxi voucher for use on the way home to avoid driving tired after several crew had car accidents. Fat lot of good it was if you were single and had to drive to the airport in the first place. This then changed to a car pickup from home but you sometimes got a taxi back but sometimes ended up paying yourself.
So JQ weren't the only ones doing flying like this. Flew JQ recently (had no other 'choice', how ironic) and the crew told me their rostered duty was 12:45, they'd snagged some seats at the back to make use of but would probably end up doing closer to 14 as the flight came in late and we left an hour behind schedule, they were then going on another sector after dropping us off. (This was under the 'Team Jetstar' arrangement where they do not get o/t after 8hr 45 like QF crew do/did)
and the much hated PER-CGK-PER back of the clock (with no 'legal' crew rest, often taken by sneaky use of a free row of seats in shifts of two, while the pilots paxed back with a new lot picked up in CGK operating)
Eventually we got a taxi voucher for use on the way home to avoid driving tired after several crew had car accidents. Fat lot of good it was if you were single and had to drive to the airport in the first place. This then changed to a car pickup from home but you sometimes got a taxi back but sometimes ended up paying yourself.
So JQ weren't the only ones doing flying like this. Flew JQ recently (had no other 'choice', how ironic) and the crew told me their rostered duty was 12:45, they'd snagged some seats at the back to make use of but would probably end up doing closer to 14 as the flight came in late and we left an hour behind schedule, they were then going on another sector after dropping us off. (This was under the 'Team Jetstar' arrangement where they do not get o/t after 8hr 45 like QF crew do/did)
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I remember a crew not being able to open a toilet door because of a container that had jammed it from the inside. A simple case of unclipping the door to remove the jammed article. Had it had been a passenger that had suffered a heart attack and blocked the door it would have had serious implications. I thought that all crew were trained about such design/safety features. I was told otherwise.
crew not being able to open a toilet door because of a container that had jammed it from the inside. A simple case of unclipping the door to remove the jammed article.
How does that work since all the toilet doors on aircraft that I can think of open outwards into the cabin or are bifold for that very reason.
Sound familiar?
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How does that work since all the toilet doors on aircraft that I can think of open outwards into the cabin or are bifold for that very reason.
Please list some aircraft types with toilet doors that open inwards.
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The bi-fold doors on the 734 aft toilets are often difficult (for some CC) to open when the waste-paper bin falls out of its cupboard and jams the door.
Hope this helps !
ST
Hope this helps !
ST
A330 & A380 bifolds also jam easily if the waste container falls out. Had to unclip one just yesterday after landing. Newbie crew looked at me and said "I didn't know you could do that". I think it's something you just learn while flying rather than something that is "officially" taught in training. Getting people out of the plane in an evac kinda overshadows opening the lavs.
It's even worse if the object is slightly left of centre because then the door jams a lot more than if it's just sitting in the middle- in the middle you can just give the door a good push and usually the object will move. Obviously in the case of a person it'd be a total removal. Ok so not all the crew might know how to do it but I doubt there'd be many cabin seniors flying who wouldn't know how to open them if needed. It's pretty obvious how to do it & if you didn't learn in the first month or two online I'd be pretty surprised.
It's even worse if the object is slightly left of centre because then the door jams a lot more than if it's just sitting in the middle- in the middle you can just give the door a good push and usually the object will move. Obviously in the case of a person it'd be a total removal. Ok so not all the crew might know how to do it but I doubt there'd be many cabin seniors flying who wouldn't know how to open them if needed. It's pretty obvious how to do it & if you didn't learn in the first month or two online I'd be pretty surprised.
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What's disappointing is no Capt having the professional gumption to say no, my crew are too fatigued and grounding flights. Perhaps that may spur the feds to act on the Jetstar lip service to safety.
