Qantas+Pilot Shortage in Asia=Risk of Failure
When I started my training, 'Pilot shortage' was just round the corner...... that was 1986.
Here we are 2011 and the hopeful masses still bleeting bout this Pilot shortage.
Every time there's a looming pilot shortage up pops a Recession,bird flu,hike in oil prices etc,etc,etc.
Tel em e's dreemin!
Great job, I love the flying but thank goodness I didn't hold my breath waiting for the correction to T's & C's thanks to demand for Pilots and Engineers.
It's never going to happen.
Here we are 2011 and the hopeful masses still bleeting bout this Pilot shortage.
Every time there's a looming pilot shortage up pops a Recession,bird flu,hike in oil prices etc,etc,etc.
Tel em e's dreemin!
Great job, I love the flying but thank goodness I didn't hold my breath waiting for the correction to T's & C's thanks to demand for Pilots and Engineers.
It's never going to happen.
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Pilot Shortage my a$$.
There are experienced jet Captains out of work, but cannot get a job because they are not rated on a particular aircraft. Nobody is willing to train you on a new type now.
The only positions available are shocking pay and conditions, plus pay $40,000 to get a job,
or go and live in Africa, Saudia Arabia, or China with little chance of ever getting a reasonably paid job with reasonable working conditions back in your home country.
I would never become an airline pilot now knowing what the pay and conditions are now and the fact I will likely have to live overseas until I retire.
Qantas may be short staffed now, but they are about to lay off pilots and recruit others in NZ or SIN on ****e salaries to replace them, albeit with a subsidiary airline.
Meanwhile ceos are giving themselves 2 million a year pay rises.
Who in there right mind would spend the huge $$ to train to be a pilot now, knowing you will have to shell out another $20,000-$60,000 later to get a job with a LLC and then more money later should you wish to change airlines (eg; to change basing, seek higher salary etc).
Contractors, tradesman, builders, etc, earn a much better wage than most pilots now, yet they dont work shift work and can get a job in any city they wish.
There are experienced jet Captains out of work, but cannot get a job because they are not rated on a particular aircraft. Nobody is willing to train you on a new type now.
The only positions available are shocking pay and conditions, plus pay $40,000 to get a job,
or go and live in Africa, Saudia Arabia, or China with little chance of ever getting a reasonably paid job with reasonable working conditions back in your home country.
I would never become an airline pilot now knowing what the pay and conditions are now and the fact I will likely have to live overseas until I retire.
Qantas may be short staffed now, but they are about to lay off pilots and recruit others in NZ or SIN on ****e salaries to replace them, albeit with a subsidiary airline.
Meanwhile ceos are giving themselves 2 million a year pay rises.
Who in there right mind would spend the huge $$ to train to be a pilot now, knowing you will have to shell out another $20,000-$60,000 later to get a job with a LLC and then more money later should you wish to change airlines (eg; to change basing, seek higher salary etc).
Contractors, tradesman, builders, etc, earn a much better wage than most pilots now, yet they dont work shift work and can get a job in any city they wish.
Last edited by Mr Pilot 2007; 29th Sep 2011 at 08:23.
Mr pilot 2007
“…but cannot get a job because they are not rated on a particular aircraft.”
No, they cannot get a job unless they have experience on type, generally 500 hours.
“Nobody is willing to train you on a new type now.”
Some are. There are currently contracts for 744 or 767 skippers that pilots with other Boeing experience can apply for.
“The only positions available are shocking pay and conditions….”
Shocking. Really? There are jobs available right now in Asia for contractors that pay more then any airline in Australia is currently offering.
“….plus pay $40,000 to get a job”
None of the contractor jobs I know of require any such payment.
In fact, most of your post is rubbish.
“…but cannot get a job because they are not rated on a particular aircraft.”
No, they cannot get a job unless they have experience on type, generally 500 hours.
“Nobody is willing to train you on a new type now.”
Some are. There are currently contracts for 744 or 767 skippers that pilots with other Boeing experience can apply for.
“The only positions available are shocking pay and conditions….”
Shocking. Really? There are jobs available right now in Asia for contractors that pay more then any airline in Australia is currently offering.
“….plus pay $40,000 to get a job”
None of the contractor jobs I know of require any such payment.
In fact, most of your post is rubbish.
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No, actually he sounds about right.
'Pilot shortage' my ass, and as for 'attracting the youth', I merely have to mention what an airline pilots life is like to make sure the any youth I speak to who may have harboured some desire for this as a career swiftly change their mind. Like I always say - Great job, terrible career.
'Pilot shortage' my ass, and as for 'attracting the youth', I merely have to mention what an airline pilots life is like to make sure the any youth I speak to who may have harboured some desire for this as a career swiftly change their mind. Like I always say - Great job, terrible career.
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and with all the 'pilot shortage' and fresh airline bashing, what do the folks that have a fresh CPL do now?
For example, I attained my CPL in 2010, shelved the idea for a while, and now make 70+k per year driving heavy machinery... with not huge experience in aircraft now, and certainly none of it current, does one run from the 'dream' or continue doing just about anything else.
If i were to go chase that dream now, I would be looking at 20k to do a MEIR, PLUS a 30-40k pay cut... but to run from that, is a waste of 60k too...
Where is the attraction? how many others are in my position??? (not a poor me post, just asking. I have chosen at this stage to not look for flying work).
For example, I attained my CPL in 2010, shelved the idea for a while, and now make 70+k per year driving heavy machinery... with not huge experience in aircraft now, and certainly none of it current, does one run from the 'dream' or continue doing just about anything else.
If i were to go chase that dream now, I would be looking at 20k to do a MEIR, PLUS a 30-40k pay cut... but to run from that, is a waste of 60k too...
Where is the attraction? how many others are in my position??? (not a poor me post, just asking. I have chosen at this stage to not look for flying work).
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DF1000, the smartest words thus far. I'm seriously considering running away, but for me the temptation so far is to "make it big" lol. Yes there are guys out there doing the job and enjoying it for the most part and I say good luck to you. There's a bit of a burst going on at the moment, which will tease us just a bit more, chase the next job, and we will all move, move and move again, pay, pay and pay again. At the end of the day some are lucky, others, not so much,. Life is like a box of chocolate.
There are experienced jet Captains out of work, but cannot get a job because they are not rated on a particular aircraft.
Most pilots will go through a few different types during their career, even a 20 year old B787 F/O is not likely to be on that aircraft when he retires. Skills need to be updated to stay marketable or you fall behind.
Flexibility is the key to get ahead, sure you may have to spend a few $$ but you get it back in the end with increased salary.
QATAR Airways take non rated pilots as do Emirates. There was a job opening in Indonesia a few months back for B738 pilots, ratings on older B737 accepted if you paid a for the differences course. Jetstar NZ also looking
Get the job, do 1000 hours and you're very marketable.
Yes you may have to work abroad or commute but it beats unemployment. Not too many have the job they want, where they want, with the pay they would like.
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Originally Posted by Metro man
Yes you may have to work abroad or commute but it beats unemployment.
But it doesn't beat another career in that case, if you have a decent choice.
Selling real estate or opening a business have the possibility of decent income reasonably quickly IF you are successful.
Unless you are already qualified in another field with some recent experience it's going to be up hill all the way.
Maybe a stupid point but Mr Creedy/Boeing says Ociania will need 13000 odd pilots over the next 20 years = 675 pilots/year. Apparently from the figures above we're already getting 1500 pilots a year... Doesnt sound like much of a shortage...
Not sure about 1500 per year Johnny'. Remember there are pilots, and there are pilots. Now I'm no fan of our political system WRT the "ticker" shown by our pollies, but the recommendations of the Senate inquiry have yet to be debated in parliament.
As well, if airline managements persist in their almost pathological pursuit of driving down pilot's wages and conditions they will eventually kill the golden goose. Some say they have done it already. Others point out that there will always be a sufficient supply of wannabees willing to sacrifice anything for an aviation career. I reckon, given the modern age we live in, the numbers will only decline. Throw some political guts (or arse covering) into the mix, and the numbers required for future growth won't even come close.
We've all seen footage of the tsunami. Doesn't look much offshore, but when it reaches landfall, devastating!
Or, there might be another GFC!
As well, if airline managements persist in their almost pathological pursuit of driving down pilot's wages and conditions they will eventually kill the golden goose. Some say they have done it already. Others point out that there will always be a sufficient supply of wannabees willing to sacrifice anything for an aviation career. I reckon, given the modern age we live in, the numbers will only decline. Throw some political guts (or arse covering) into the mix, and the numbers required for future growth won't even come close.
We've all seen footage of the tsunami. Doesn't look much offshore, but when it reaches landfall, devastating!
Or, there might be another GFC!
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The truth is if you don't have some experience on type you won't get the job. An associate of mine with considerable time but on a old jet (Boeing) has been unemployed for a year now as no one wants to know a pilot in his 40's without time on a new type or glass time. Doesn't matter if applying even for an FO job or offering to pay the training!!!! You can pay for as much training as you like but you still need hours on a new type under your belt.
Yes some employers (very few) will look at you and may employ you after considerable concessions(bond) but normally there is a huge reduction in a suitable family orientated lifestyle and that's only after fighting for a spot from a hundred or so others applying. Really these employers are a very small minority. Their ads may say otherwise but get to the nitty gritty,it's still the same old stuff. When their is no shortage, the wannabe is the bottom feeder.
From what i can gather is that been a pilot is getting to the point when one must think 'what the f*** do i wanna do this s*** for.
Who recommends been a pilot to your kids!!!! Be honest!
Happy flying above minima
NBM
Yes some employers (very few) will look at you and may employ you after considerable concessions(bond) but normally there is a huge reduction in a suitable family orientated lifestyle and that's only after fighting for a spot from a hundred or so others applying. Really these employers are a very small minority. Their ads may say otherwise but get to the nitty gritty,it's still the same old stuff. When their is no shortage, the wannabe is the bottom feeder.
From what i can gather is that been a pilot is getting to the point when one must think 'what the f*** do i wanna do this s*** for.
Who recommends been a pilot to your kids!!!! Be honest!
Happy flying above minima
NBM
Not exactly sure what part of the world you're referring to NBM?
My company has just lost at least 10 drivers (non jet experienced, some in their 40's) to the likes of DJ and Jetstar, and they're just the tip of our particular iceberg!
Now the above carriers may not be everybody's best choice, but they are the major jet airline recruiters in this country. If truth be known, I reckon they'll struggle to find candidates for their planned expansions. Especially if the legislators step into the equation.
Perhaps your friend was being too choosy. Maybe he can afford to be?
My company has just lost at least 10 drivers (non jet experienced, some in their 40's) to the likes of DJ and Jetstar, and they're just the tip of our particular iceberg!
Now the above carriers may not be everybody's best choice, but they are the major jet airline recruiters in this country. If truth be known, I reckon they'll struggle to find candidates for their planned expansions. Especially if the legislators step into the equation.
Perhaps your friend was being too choosy. Maybe he can afford to be?
