Man ‘chokes to death eating Jetstar meal’
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Correct - most AED's will only shock if they detect ventricular fibrillation (VF), or ventricular tachycardia (VT) above a certain rate. As a paramedic I have done dozens of cardiac arrests , asystole (flatline), VF, VT, etc. If the AED did not recommend a shock then it is likely the patient was in Asystole or pulseless electrical activity consistent with exanguination, asthma, tension pnuemothorax etc. In an asystole arrest CPR ,ventilation and IV adrenaline are the priorities. As deadhead said , sometimes adrenaline will change the cardiac rhythm to one that can be defibrillated. In all the Asystole arrests I have done only 1 has walked out of hospital and that was because the response time was less than 2 minutes, CPR was in progress when we arrived and he was young enough. It was a narcotic overdose. We get plently that we restore cardiac output on via adrenaline , defibrillation and a few other drugs but nearly always they die later in hospital from hypoxic brain injuries. By the way - I will be interested to hear if it actually was a choking. Arresting patients usually have a short convulsion caused by hypoxia to the brain. It is often appears as if the patient is choking. The poor guy had a fairly significant underlying cardiac history with chronic heart valve problems so this is what might have killed him.
Queen Buzz,
I think this is just a galley gossip story. A pilot is not qualified to call/pronounce/certify death. The Captain can provide advice to the crew if s/he thinks that continuing would put them n danger (for example, imminent landing) however that is the extent of their input aside from if they are diverting or not.
EK have a procedure which outlines when/if to cease CPR. It is quite possible if CPR is being performed using the AED, if the AED keeps advising to shock, then CPR could well go for some time as the crew are not permitted to stop if the AED says to keep going.
Only a doctor can pronounce death; it must then be certified when landing at either a diversion or the intended port. Medlink can advise whether to continue CPR, and there are several other criteria which when met means that CPR can be stopped. I would hazard a guess that most airlines have a similar procedure in place.
Leave would be given but I doubt it would be that long for ALL of the crew, maybe one or two if they had a very adverse reaction; that would be decided by the company medical staff and/or the EAP staff.
I think this is just a galley gossip story. A pilot is not qualified to call/pronounce/certify death. The Captain can provide advice to the crew if s/he thinks that continuing would put them n danger (for example, imminent landing) however that is the extent of their input aside from if they are diverting or not.
EK have a procedure which outlines when/if to cease CPR. It is quite possible if CPR is being performed using the AED, if the AED keeps advising to shock, then CPR could well go for some time as the crew are not permitted to stop if the AED says to keep going.
Only a doctor can pronounce death; it must then be certified when landing at either a diversion or the intended port. Medlink can advise whether to continue CPR, and there are several other criteria which when met means that CPR can be stopped. I would hazard a guess that most airlines have a similar procedure in place.
Leave would be given but I doubt it would be that long for ALL of the crew, maybe one or two if they had a very adverse reaction; that would be decided by the company medical staff and/or the EAP staff.
AustralianMade
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Priapism, I wondered if you were a paramedic when I first saw your name (ages ago). Its paramedic kind of humour. You're a brave man taking that name!
ABX
Ps. I guess a cold shower wont work huh?
ABX
Ps. I guess a cold shower wont work huh?
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Yes, seemed to me an unlikely story, however, it was from a participating member's mouth and it was before joining QF, so I believed it! I was horrified that they were made to continue CPR... on a different note, I have had to perform CPR on an overdose "customer".... the paramedics arrived, they called the ambos and they administered Narcane... the "patient" came around (blue lips and all ), he got pissed that we'd taken away his "high" ( and his schooner ), he shook himself off and minced out of the pub....with his middle finger stuck in the air....
Lol, sounds about right!!!! SOme of them aren't grateful at all for the assistance...
Well, it could have been prior to the medlink days I suppose, or, what they descrobe as hours could have been between 1 to 2... I am sure no matter the duration it probably feels like hours at the time. Having been involved in a couple of emergency situations, one instance I was sure the incident occured over about five minutes; later, an onlooker told me it had taken less than 30sec. So quite possible for them to later describe it as hours. The longest I've heard CPR ongoing was for around an hour 45, but that was with a dr present who advised them to keep going, as drugs were being administered. As Priapism explained, it would depend on the circumstances and the medics would know whether it was worth continuing or not.
I wonder if the media will publish an updated version of the story, explaining all this extra info about the patient's pre-existing conditons? I doubt it.
Well, it could have been prior to the medlink days I suppose, or, what they descrobe as hours could have been between 1 to 2... I am sure no matter the duration it probably feels like hours at the time. Having been involved in a couple of emergency situations, one instance I was sure the incident occured over about five minutes; later, an onlooker told me it had taken less than 30sec. So quite possible for them to later describe it as hours. The longest I've heard CPR ongoing was for around an hour 45, but that was with a dr present who advised them to keep going, as drugs were being administered. As Priapism explained, it would depend on the circumstances and the medics would know whether it was worth continuing or not.
I wonder if the media will publish an updated version of the story, explaining all this extra info about the patient's pre-existing conditons? I doubt it.
Ozangel wrote
It appears that exposing oneself to litigation when rendering assistance might be a one of those urban myths. In fact it would appear that one might be more liable for failing to assist. Read more http://www.ofaat.com.au/Images/docum...volunteers.pdf
Although doctors deal with this stuff in the same, clinical way, pilots and cabin crew deal with emergencies - it is still upsetting for them, and in this case, nothing short of frustrating and angering. ESPECIALLY when they volunteer and EXPOSE themselves to litigation.
Resuscitation outside of hospital
There seems to be people commenting here with a degree of medical knowledge well ahead of mine. Maybe they can correct me if I'm wrong, but:
I have been told that resus in a non-hospital environment is actually successful in less than 10% of cases. I personally feel for the crew involved in this situation.
I also have seen in person, and via anecdotal evidence from good sources, the SEVERE LACK of training for Jetstar CC. To state the obvious, though I think it is worth doing - that is not the fault of the CC themselves. I have been thrown into situations with poor training myself in the past - at times you simply don't realise how unprepared you are at the time. It's only later, when you get good training, or heaven forbid when something does go really wrong, that you get a really good appreciation. But by then it's too late...
CR.
I have been told that resus in a non-hospital environment is actually successful in less than 10% of cases. I personally feel for the crew involved in this situation.
I also have seen in person, and via anecdotal evidence from good sources, the SEVERE LACK of training for Jetstar CC. To state the obvious, though I think it is worth doing - that is not the fault of the CC themselves. I have been thrown into situations with poor training myself in the past - at times you simply don't realise how unprepared you are at the time. It's only later, when you get good training, or heaven forbid when something does go really wrong, that you get a really good appreciation. But by then it's too late...
CR.
AustralianMade
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Counter-rotation, only about half (or less) of those patients ambos perform cpr on walk out of hospital. Many times the paramedics keep them going with drugs, defib and cpr, but they have underlying medical conditions that they do not survive. When cpr is performed by non-medical personel the figure is pretty low. 10% might be right.
I know my first attempt at cpr on a real person as a young and proud first-aider was not successful and it bothered me for a while.
ABX
I know my first attempt at cpr on a real person as a young and proud first-aider was not successful and it bothered me for a while.
ABX
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Inflight "Service"
This brings a whole new twist to having inflight "Service".....
By the way....does anyone know what meal he was consuming??
(Just so i know which one to avoid!)
By the way....does anyone know what meal he was consuming??
(Just so i know which one to avoid!)
Join Date: Oct 2007
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MoreMJ2, don't know, but what I do know that JQ serves the best meat pies in Star Class that I can remember, and if I shove off this mortal coil eating one of those, and a good glass of Margaret River Red in the hand well I will die a happy man. Eh, just don't shove me in the John, the crew rest will do nicely.
