FAA thoughts on CASA
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FAA thoughts on CASA
Safety fears came close to freezing air route
So much for 'world's best practice'
Safety fears came close to freezing air route
Dylan Welch September 1, 2011
THE United States was so concerned about the state of Australia's air safety system in 2009 that it considered freezing flights from Australia to the US, a downgrade that normally only affects countries from the developing world.
The revelation, in a US State Department cable released this week by WikiLeaks, discussed a recent safety inspection by the US's Federal Aviation Authority, which audits countries whose carriers fly to the United States to ensure they meet appropriate safety standards.
In the cable, from December 2009, it is revealed the FAA told Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority that Australia could face a downgrade to ''Category 2'' due to a shortage of properly trained safety inspectors and too much delegation of CASA's regulatory function to carriers.
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A Category 2 rating suggests the FAA believed the country's safety regime does not meet international standards. It is a category mainly used for countries in the developing world.
''A downgrade to Category 2 would be the worst-case scenario, which would entail measures such as freezing Australia-US flight operations to current levels and terminating code-sharing arrangements, such as the one between Qantas and American Airlines,'' the cable stated.
''CASA officials are not taking this possibility lightly and seem committed to resolve the shortcomings in order to avoid a downgrade.''
The findings resulted from a five-day safety audit by the FAA in late 2009, which found ''significant shortcomings'' in CASA's maintenance of the Australian aviation regulatory system.
CASA has been criticised for delegating too much of its regulatory obligations to the flight carriers in the past and the FAA audit may have been the last straw.
In the 2010 budget, the government announced a large funding increase for CASA.
The FAA audit may also help explain why CASA was so severe when cracking down on Tiger earlier this year.
Read more: Safety fears came close to freezing air route
Dylan Welch September 1, 2011
THE United States was so concerned about the state of Australia's air safety system in 2009 that it considered freezing flights from Australia to the US, a downgrade that normally only affects countries from the developing world.
The revelation, in a US State Department cable released this week by WikiLeaks, discussed a recent safety inspection by the US's Federal Aviation Authority, which audits countries whose carriers fly to the United States to ensure they meet appropriate safety standards.
In the cable, from December 2009, it is revealed the FAA told Australia's Civil Aviation Safety Authority that Australia could face a downgrade to ''Category 2'' due to a shortage of properly trained safety inspectors and too much delegation of CASA's regulatory function to carriers.
Advertisement: Story continues below
A Category 2 rating suggests the FAA believed the country's safety regime does not meet international standards. It is a category mainly used for countries in the developing world.
''A downgrade to Category 2 would be the worst-case scenario, which would entail measures such as freezing Australia-US flight operations to current levels and terminating code-sharing arrangements, such as the one between Qantas and American Airlines,'' the cable stated.
''CASA officials are not taking this possibility lightly and seem committed to resolve the shortcomings in order to avoid a downgrade.''
The findings resulted from a five-day safety audit by the FAA in late 2009, which found ''significant shortcomings'' in CASA's maintenance of the Australian aviation regulatory system.
CASA has been criticised for delegating too much of its regulatory obligations to the flight carriers in the past and the FAA audit may have been the last straw.
In the 2010 budget, the government announced a large funding increase for CASA.
The FAA audit may also help explain why CASA was so severe when cracking down on Tiger earlier this year.
Read more: Safety fears came close to freezing air route
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I hope that this issue is (or has been) given due regard by the Government. I have not been involved in GA for quite sometime and notice from reading various posts on this forum relating to CASA and GA nobody seems happy on either side.
As an airline pilot I must trust in my management that they are doing the right thing. Given my airlines management I feel uncomfortable about the amount of delegation given by CASA to the airline. I don't profess to understand the nuances of CASA and its regulation of Australian Airlines, nor do I understand FAA.
What I would like is for the Government to ensure that one of its own departments is doing its job properly and without hinderance or outside influence. Increase the budget, hire qualified and professional persons and ensure that Australian Aviation is safe at all levels. It is better to be proactive than reactive.
As an airline pilot I must trust in my management that they are doing the right thing. Given my airlines management I feel uncomfortable about the amount of delegation given by CASA to the airline. I don't profess to understand the nuances of CASA and its regulation of Australian Airlines, nor do I understand FAA.
What I would like is for the Government to ensure that one of its own departments is doing its job properly and without hinderance or outside influence. Increase the budget, hire qualified and professional persons and ensure that Australian Aviation is safe at all levels. It is better to be proactive than reactive.
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So much for 'world's best practice'
Surely there is enough evidence becoming aparent to warrant a thorough disection by Senator Xenaphon?
Paul Phelan always has some great 'nuggets of truth' about this mob, might be time for some 'robust' mainline media attention?
adsyj, The issue with what you say is this - The government is part of the problem. They and the Regulator are intertwined and both feed of each other in the same truth covering fashion. CASA is the offspring of the government which is it's host. The only way to crack open this nut is to use an independant resource that cannot and will not be swayed, manipulated or corrupted in any way fathomable. Under the current system asking the government to intervene is like asking a murderer to investigate his own murder,the outcome is inevitable, predictable and known before the onset of the investigation begins.
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What a load of cr&p!
Our standards in Australia are way ahead of the standards in the US! I do training there regularly and I'm glad because it is so much easier than it is here! In-fact we have some of the strictest rules of any country in the world here. Someone at the FAA delegation must have a small man syndrome!
Our standards in Australia are way ahead of the standards in the US! I do training there regularly and I'm glad because it is so much easier than it is here! In-fact we have some of the strictest rules of any country in the world here. Someone at the FAA delegation must have a small man syndrome!
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Lite reading
What are other regulatory authorities opinions on the FAA ? The Americans have their fair share of accidents and incidents as well. Should they be Category 1 themselves ?
Some lite reading as follows:
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/rrat_ctte/casa/submissions/sub47.pdf
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s305446.htm
http://www.aviationadvertiser.com.au/news/2009/10/who%E2%80%99s-investigating-whom/
http://www.aph.gov.au/senate/committee/rrat_ctte/casa/submissions/sub10.pdf
http://www.pprune.org/dg-p-reporting-points/329724-senate-inquiry-into-casa-13.html
Just a taste and the tip of the iceberg.
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Do they have delegates in the USA? I was of the understanding that over there license renewals/flight checks/sims etc are done with FAA people not delegates which might be what the FAA's issue with CASA is.
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I hope that this issue is (or has been) given due regard by the Government.
Like the due regard they gave the mining super tax.
Like the due regard they gave the re-building schools 'scheme.'
Like the arrogance & dis-respect Albanesse gave the Australians that recently protested at Parliament House.
Wouldn't know his arse was on fire til he got his finger burnt
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I spent some time working in the USA with an Australian registered aircraft, and while CASA may not be perfect they are miles ahead of the FAA.
On a ramp check one day the FAA inspector snagged our emergency exit path lights as being the wrong colour.
I said to him they are red, what colour do you want?
He said (honestly) but they are a different red to what we use in the USA.
On a ramp check one day the FAA inspector snagged our emergency exit path lights as being the wrong colour.
I said to him they are red, what colour do you want?
He said (honestly) but they are a different red to what we use in the USA.
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Cracking point Jack Ranga
I agree with the other posters as well, I am not saying the FAA system is any better or worse. However it seems to me that the report does raise some very valid concerns.
I have very little faith in airline management and thus feel uncomfortable with the amount of delegation.
I agree with the other posters as well, I am not saying the FAA system is any better or worse. However it seems to me that the report does raise some very valid concerns.
I have very little faith in airline management and thus feel uncomfortable with the amount of delegation.
Check Attitude
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This seems to coincide with the scathing audit by ICAO in 2008, they (ICAO), left them a big list of things to fix to bring into compliance.
Surely everyone hasn't forgotten the ICAO audit on CASA Australia ?
http://www.icao.int/fsix/AuditReps/CSAfinal/Australia_USOAP_Final_Report_en.pdf
Surely everyone hasn't forgotten the ICAO audit on CASA Australia ?
http://www.icao.int/fsix/AuditReps/CSAfinal/Australia_USOAP_Final_Report_en.pdf
Last edited by Mainframe; 1st Sep 2011 at 09:09. Reason: correction of URL
Mainframe...
No, a lot of us have neither forgotten that audit, nor the non-compliances with the ICAO SARPs that it identified...and which in a lot of cases STILL haven't been remedied.
Jack Ranga has really hit the nail on the head with his apt description of burnt arses and fingers!
But Jack, don't leave Albanese holding the can on this one - the idiot CASA Director of Aviation Safety has accountability too.
Unfortunatley though, while that 'brace of idiots' remains in control of civil aviation here in Australia, there seems to be no prospect whatsoever for any meaningful aviation reform.
No, a lot of us have neither forgotten that audit, nor the non-compliances with the ICAO SARPs that it identified...and which in a lot of cases STILL haven't been remedied.
Jack Ranga has really hit the nail on the head with his apt description of burnt arses and fingers!
But Jack, don't leave Albanese holding the can on this one - the idiot CASA Director of Aviation Safety has accountability too.
Unfortunatley though, while that 'brace of idiots' remains in control of civil aviation here in Australia, there seems to be no prospect whatsoever for any meaningful aviation reform.
Perhaps if Australia adopted FAA or JAR Regulations (which are continually updated and amended by aviation experts) instead of trying to maintain unique and grossly antiquated "World's Best Practice" ANO's which CASA has spent over 10 years on trying to update and still can't agree on wording changes in endless meetings...
...then they might actually have some staff time left to actually conduct the job they should be doing...regulating Australian aviation safety to standards that would be able to achieve and satisfy FAA and ICAO minimum audit standards.
Sorry, it's an Australian Government Public Service department isn't it? Yes, Minister! Silly old me for broaching the subject..!
World's best practice indeed...what an embarrassment for Australian aviation...
...then they might actually have some staff time left to actually conduct the job they should be doing...regulating Australian aviation safety to standards that would be able to achieve and satisfy FAA and ICAO minimum audit standards.
Sorry, it's an Australian Government Public Service department isn't it? Yes, Minister! Silly old me for broaching the subject..!
World's best practice indeed...what an embarrassment for Australian aviation...
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Our standards in Australia are way ahead of the standards in the US! I do training there regularly and I'm glad because it is so much easier than it is here! In-fact we have some of the strictest rules of any country in the world here. Someone at the FAA delegation must have a small man syndrome!
The FAA report was critical of the degree of self regulation CASA has delegated to the airlines and I suspect the report may be correct in respect to Qantas.
Why do you "train there regularly and I'm glad because it is so much easier than it is here" if you believe the US standards of pilot training are sub standard vis-a-vis the Australian regulations?
ANO's which CASA has spent over 10 years on trying to update and still can't agree on wording changes in endless meetings...
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Sorry guys, but CASA are appalling in just about every way. Would be a much better idea to scrap all these bizarre Australian rules and practices and choose to either adopt FAA or JAA regs as the basis for a new framework. The only people who think that the way Oz does things is the 'best' way are people who have only ever flown in Australia.
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I suspect AH is on the money!
I thought the reason why it took forever to do anything regarding the new regulations was because CASA had to get their lawyers in to adapt penalty points for any transgressions from the new regulations ??
If it's true, I hope we're not all wondering why all of a sudden prices for basic things increased 600% overnight. Legal eagles don't come cheap.
If it's true, I hope we're not all wondering why all of a sudden prices for basic things increased 600% overnight. Legal eagles don't come cheap.
Having just returned to RPT flying in Oz, after the better part of 10 years flying RPT in America, I've come to the conclusion that;
A) We have this baffling need to make things far more difficult than they need to be, just to satisfy the Australian need to prove we're better than everyone else.
B) Not only are we no better but we're certainly no safer. Our airspace system is disaster, ATC could do with a few lessons in how jet aircraft actually work and how to sequence them efficiently and some of our regulations are simply idiotic.
We may pat ourselves on the back because we don't have as many accidents but unless you've operated in and out of places like Chicago, Atlanta, New York or Lax, it's almost impossible to appreciate how many aircraft they move around in every 24 hour period. When you have the 1000's of flights that they do every day, it doesn't take long before the law of averages kicks in.
A) We have this baffling need to make things far more difficult than they need to be, just to satisfy the Australian need to prove we're better than everyone else.
B) Not only are we no better but we're certainly no safer. Our airspace system is disaster, ATC could do with a few lessons in how jet aircraft actually work and how to sequence them efficiently and some of our regulations are simply idiotic.
We may pat ourselves on the back because we don't have as many accidents but unless you've operated in and out of places like Chicago, Atlanta, New York or Lax, it's almost impossible to appreciate how many aircraft they move around in every 24 hour period. When you have the 1000's of flights that they do every day, it doesn't take long before the law of averages kicks in.
Last edited by Kenny; 2nd Sep 2011 at 11:18.