Failure To Understand Qantas Strategy - Inquiry Needed.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: australia
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
unfortunately, opening up the books will do no good. All they will see is the audited balances of the accounts. What was the materiality KPMG used this year?
What AIPA/ALAEA/Senate need to see is the processes being used to charge things to different parts of the business. Sure, KPMG will have checked a random sample of things, but, having been an auditor in the past, i can tell you it would not be hard to fudge the numbers.
As my boss (one of the Big 4) once told me 'Audited accounts are worth nothing, they're just there to make some investors feel warm and fuzzy, and to give managers an out when it all turns to ****'
What AIPA/ALAEA/Senate need to see is the processes being used to charge things to different parts of the business. Sure, KPMG will have checked a random sample of things, but, having been an auditor in the past, i can tell you it would not be hard to fudge the numbers.
As my boss (one of the Big 4) once told me 'Audited accounts are worth nothing, they're just there to make some investors feel warm and fuzzy, and to give managers an out when it all turns to ****'
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: australia
Age: 74
Posts: 907
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One needs to look no further than Enron, Allco, HIH,Bond Corporation, etc.
I'm sure their boses at the time stood behind their audited accounts just as staunchly.
I'm sure their boses at the time stood behind their audited accounts just as staunchly.
Thread Starter
Astroboy, what the auditors need to see and to test for accuracy are the management accounts of Qantas. That would allow you to see the contribution margin for each of the segments of the group. That is the revenue minus direct costs of each segment before a single indirect or fixed expense is allocated to the segment.
I think that the general public haven't a snowballs chance in hell of getting that information. Furthermore whatever forensic aviation accounting expertise there is in KPMG (if any) will want to keep getting work from Qantas, so the likelihood of any serious questioning of Qantas figures is remote.
I think that the general public haven't a snowballs chance in hell of getting that information. Furthermore whatever forensic aviation accounting expertise there is in KPMG (if any) will want to keep getting work from Qantas, so the likelihood of any serious questioning of Qantas figures is remote.
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: gold coast QLD australia
Age: 86
Posts: 1,345
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So what are you all going to do? Walking around wringing your hands is not going to get you anywhere. Far be it that I should be offering advice being a 89er, and the last thing I would suggest is a pilot walkout, but a mass workout, might be required at least to get Joyce to a table. There is room for compromise, there always is, otherwise its all over. Anyone with half a brain can see where the bloke is heading, to cheaper labor and cheaper flying, and why anyone in their right mind would open a LCC in Japan, well they need help. I just hope your unions are working on something right now, or God help Qantas, in fact God help all of you, he is hellbent on trashing you and the company, we all know that.
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Greg Combet turns into the people he used to fight
So Greg Combet not satisfied with Screwing the public with a carbon tax sell has now sold everything he once stood for and sold out all of the people who once paid his wages.
This govenment is a joke Why is nobody asking for a senate enquiry!!!!
WTF
This govenment is a joke Why is nobody asking for a senate enquiry!!!!
WTF
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Here & There
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hopefully what is outlined below will get up Steve. Other than your contesting the Sale Act, believe it is your best chance.
INDEPENDENT Senator Nick Xenophon says Parliament should examine Qantas' plans to cut up to 1000 Australian jobs to ensure the airline is not breaching any laws.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce unveiled a five-year plan to increase profits at the national flag carrier through changes to flights and scrapping Australian jobs.
The airline was privatised in 1992 by the then Labor Government, with a condition of sale being that its main operational base and headquarters remain in Australia.
Senator Xenophon said he would ask the Senate to hold an inquiry into what the airline has announced "particularly with the view as to whether it is in breach of the Qantas Sales Act (1992)."
He said a bill would be introduced into the senate tomorrow concerning the operations of Australian airlines with the VH registration prefix that fly internationally and around the country.
If (these airlines) employ foreign-based crew, they must be employed "on the same terms and conditions as Australian crew", Senator Xenophon told reporters in Canberra.
ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said the Qantas announcement was an "outrage".
"It is an attack on Australian jobs and it really brings into question whether Qantas is truly an Australian airline," Mr Lawrence said in Canberra.
"You can't properly call Australia home, legitimately call Australia home, by putting ads in newspapers."
Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said the Government was disappointed by the proposed job cuts at Qantas.
"Job losses are always regrettable, but the Government acknowledges that this is a commercial decision taken by Qantas," Mr Albanese said.
Australian Greens MP Adam Bandt said concerns over Qantas moving its business overseas were not just about job security.
"It is also an issue of maintaining Qantas' safety record and ensuring we maintain an Australian air industry," Mr Bandt said.
Mr Lawrence said passengers, shareholders and workers at Qantas should be worried about the future of the airline.
He said Qantas has decided to trade off its good name and high standards by outsourcing the work overseas.
Mr Albanese said the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) was holding an inquiry into allegations of overworked foreign employees at Australian airlines.
"CASA is also currently initiating a project to implement new international civil aviation standards for managing fatigue in aviation personnel," he said.
"The new standards will come into effect from December this year."
Good luck!
INDEPENDENT Senator Nick Xenophon says Parliament should examine Qantas' plans to cut up to 1000 Australian jobs to ensure the airline is not breaching any laws.
Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce unveiled a five-year plan to increase profits at the national flag carrier through changes to flights and scrapping Australian jobs.
The airline was privatised in 1992 by the then Labor Government, with a condition of sale being that its main operational base and headquarters remain in Australia.
Senator Xenophon said he would ask the Senate to hold an inquiry into what the airline has announced "particularly with the view as to whether it is in breach of the Qantas Sales Act (1992)."
He said a bill would be introduced into the senate tomorrow concerning the operations of Australian airlines with the VH registration prefix that fly internationally and around the country.
If (these airlines) employ foreign-based crew, they must be employed "on the same terms and conditions as Australian crew", Senator Xenophon told reporters in Canberra.
ACTU secretary Jeff Lawrence said the Qantas announcement was an "outrage".
"It is an attack on Australian jobs and it really brings into question whether Qantas is truly an Australian airline," Mr Lawrence said in Canberra.
"You can't properly call Australia home, legitimately call Australia home, by putting ads in newspapers."
Federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese said the Government was disappointed by the proposed job cuts at Qantas.
"Job losses are always regrettable, but the Government acknowledges that this is a commercial decision taken by Qantas," Mr Albanese said.
Australian Greens MP Adam Bandt said concerns over Qantas moving its business overseas were not just about job security.
"It is also an issue of maintaining Qantas' safety record and ensuring we maintain an Australian air industry," Mr Bandt said.
Mr Lawrence said passengers, shareholders and workers at Qantas should be worried about the future of the airline.
He said Qantas has decided to trade off its good name and high standards by outsourcing the work overseas.
Mr Albanese said the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) was holding an inquiry into allegations of overworked foreign employees at Australian airlines.
"CASA is also currently initiating a project to implement new international civil aviation standards for managing fatigue in aviation personnel," he said.
"The new standards will come into effect from December this year."
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fliegensville, Gold Coast Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Reith
I know I was vilified by the likes of Tinny & Cooda etc back in 2007, but now that QF are shafting you so thoroughly..so comprehensively....you don't reckon that reith ain't loving this?
howard and costelllo finally got together for a meal, because reith was there to unify their passion of driving down your pay and conditions to a bowl of rice a day
'Alas' they could not get you with 'work choices', the ALP saved you there, though you'd never the balls to admit it....they're coming for you at a different angle now................
howard and costelllo finally got together for a meal, because reith was there to unify their passion of driving down your pay and conditions to a bowl of rice a day
'Alas' they could not get you with 'work choices', the ALP saved you there, though you'd never the balls to admit it....they're coming for you at a different angle now................
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If an audit of the accounts found that the results were a bit rubbery and instead of a $200m loss, it could be agreed that the figure was a much smaller loss or breakeven, what would that achieve? The company would still view their strategy as valid given that they want a return on $5bil capital of say 10% or $500m from the International business alone.
Unfortunately, whilst I don't like it from my own personal standpoint, I can understand that if allocation of resouces in a different area is more profitable then that is a rationale decision and one I make regularly in my household finances. We buy imported goods from Bunnings, Aldi and drive an imported car due to the cheaper prices and love it!
All I know is that my neighbour flew to China last week on China Southern as it was heaps cheaper than anyone else. He told me that he just assumed it was as safe as Qantas because the government let them fly here. This is what we are up against. Unless Nick X can make the public fly Qantas then all the senate enquiries and forensic audits will achieve nothing.
Unfortunately, whilst I don't like it from my own personal standpoint, I can understand that if allocation of resouces in a different area is more profitable then that is a rationale decision and one I make regularly in my household finances. We buy imported goods from Bunnings, Aldi and drive an imported car due to the cheaper prices and love it!
All I know is that my neighbour flew to China last week on China Southern as it was heaps cheaper than anyone else. He told me that he just assumed it was as safe as Qantas because the government let them fly here. This is what we are up against. Unless Nick X can make the public fly Qantas then all the senate enquiries and forensic audits will achieve nothing.
Thread Starter
BP2197:
Profit in a multi segment company is a rubbery concept because it is easy to make it appear in one segment and vanish in another.
Qantas alleges that "Jetstar is highly profitable, Qantas international is not", then uses that allegation as a justification for action.
The trouble with that stance is that if it is untrue we have legal problems....
If an audit of the accounts found that the results were a bit rubbery and instead of a $200m loss, it could be agreed that the figure was a much smaller loss or breakeven, what would that achieve? The company would still view their strategy as valid given that they want a return on $5bil capital of say 10% or $500m from the International business alone...............................
Qantas alleges that "Jetstar is highly profitable, Qantas international is not", then uses that allegation as a justification for action.
The trouble with that stance is that if it is untrue we have legal problems....
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 187
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its all about IR.......
I attended the briefing given by Wilson and Strambi on Wed. Keg made a good speech.
The summary of the answers is:
No fleet renewal plan for QF international. When specifically asked about the B787 Strambi admitted that under the new plan, none will come to QF.
A330's to replace B767's domestically as they retire. By extension this means that currently serviced A330 destinations (CGK,PVG,MNL,SIN,HKG) are for the chopper because there is no spare capacity amongst that fleet.
180 pilot redundancies, but more to come as the B744 fleet goes from 26-9 and the B767 fleet is retired.
QF pilots to be given opportunities (under new T's & C's) in the new premium carrier, but this was later shown to be a lie as AIPA had been told the day before that no QF pilots would be welcome in either of the new offshore entities
Against this is QF Internationals 82% load factor for the last year. Imagine what the real profit would have been if QF had not been loaded up with JQ's costs.
Anyhow, thats the bottom line. A dying carrier with no fleet renewal program.
The summary of the answers is:
No fleet renewal plan for QF international. When specifically asked about the B787 Strambi admitted that under the new plan, none will come to QF.
A330's to replace B767's domestically as they retire. By extension this means that currently serviced A330 destinations (CGK,PVG,MNL,SIN,HKG) are for the chopper because there is no spare capacity amongst that fleet.
180 pilot redundancies, but more to come as the B744 fleet goes from 26-9 and the B767 fleet is retired.
QF pilots to be given opportunities (under new T's & C's) in the new premium carrier, but this was later shown to be a lie as AIPA had been told the day before that no QF pilots would be welcome in either of the new offshore entities
Against this is QF Internationals 82% load factor for the last year. Imagine what the real profit would have been if QF had not been loaded up with JQ's costs.
Anyhow, thats the bottom line. A dying carrier with no fleet renewal program.
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Holland
Age: 60
Posts: 560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Reith is a parasite. What is deplorable with Labor however is that the very people elected to represent Labor voters have turned into Class A wetsocks. Combet and Shorten should hang their heads in shame, pathetic. Who is next to join Labor the 'former party of blue collar supporters', Corrigan ? ..
I never thought I would see the day whe come when Labor members disgust me as much as that c
t Howard and friends. My grandfather, a soldier, labor supporter, steel worker and bridge builder would be turning in his grave if he knew what Australia had turned in to
I never thought I would see the day whe come when Labor members disgust me as much as that c
t Howard and friends. My grandfather, a soldier, labor supporter, steel worker and bridge builder would be turning in his grave if he knew what Australia had turned in to
If there is ever a senate inquiry into this whole affair, it would be interesting to hear the views of the previous cfo at Qantas.
Qantas CFO quits for personal reasons
Former Qantas CFO joins Investec
Qantas CFO quits for personal reasons
Former Qantas CFO joins Investec
There is really no way the "true" profitability of Jetstar will ever be known, even if there was a forensic accounting review.
Jetstar was gifted many things for free from Qantas that are very very hard to try and quantify. For example, QF spent 14mths getting the A330's ETOPS approval involving continuous technical and engineering trend monitoring etc. Jetstar never had to do any of it. Jetstar was gifted established routes from Qantas giving an instant market share penetration. How do you put a dollar figure on that? QF looked after the A330 engineering for Jetstar. Sure they might have been billed for the service (sometimes?), but there is a whole infrastructure and ancillary cost base that QF wears but Jetstar leverages.
If Jetstar had been a truly independent start-up, it would still be amortising hundreds of millions of dollars in associated costs and would have incurred numerous losses to build market share on its own.
Jetstar was gifted many things for free from Qantas that are very very hard to try and quantify. For example, QF spent 14mths getting the A330's ETOPS approval involving continuous technical and engineering trend monitoring etc. Jetstar never had to do any of it. Jetstar was gifted established routes from Qantas giving an instant market share penetration. How do you put a dollar figure on that? QF looked after the A330 engineering for Jetstar. Sure they might have been billed for the service (sometimes?), but there is a whole infrastructure and ancillary cost base that QF wears but Jetstar leverages.
If Jetstar had been a truly independent start-up, it would still be amortising hundreds of millions of dollars in associated costs and would have incurred numerous losses to build market share on its own.
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Australia
Posts: 175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Bob Brown Bill - Qantas Sale Act - Still call Australia Home
Yesterday in the Senate
Flashbacks of Fielding's bill back in 07-08 with his Keep Jetstar Australian....
Senator BOB BROWN: To move:
That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Qantas Sale Act 1992, and for related purposes. Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011.
That the following bill be introduced: A Bill for an Act to amend the Qantas Sale Act 1992, and for related purposes. Qantas Sale Amendment (Still Call Australia Home) Bill 2011.
