QF pilots offered J* MOU/other positions
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Given the times I can see some as using these slots as a chance to get an upgrade that is not available in mainline at the moment and possibly move onto another airline that values it's employees if such a beast exists once required criteria are attained. I can certainly understand the logic in considering the chance to move to Jet*.
It should also been seen a cynical industrial tool by Joyce and co to undermine the current EBA negotiations. What will we look like wanting equivalent pilot pay for QF codeshare airline pilots when we are jumping ship to a mob we have been saying are under paying its pilots substantially (which they are).
Time to stay united, it is clear despite BB's BS that they cannot get pilots, supply and demand will require a look at renumeration. A mate in Jet* Asia has just been given a payrise, SQ's LCC is going to need pilots, how many pilots do EK need? Management know that they will lose pilots if the T&cs are better on the other side. I sense a bit of panic from the clowns running QF and Jet*, holding our nerve can only result in a better future for the entire group both QF and Jet*. Maybe I'm dreaming too.
It should also been seen a cynical industrial tool by Joyce and co to undermine the current EBA negotiations. What will we look like wanting equivalent pilot pay for QF codeshare airline pilots when we are jumping ship to a mob we have been saying are under paying its pilots substantially (which they are).
Time to stay united, it is clear despite BB's BS that they cannot get pilots, supply and demand will require a look at renumeration. A mate in Jet* Asia has just been given a payrise, SQ's LCC is going to need pilots, how many pilots do EK need? Management know that they will lose pilots if the T&cs are better on the other side. I sense a bit of panic from the clowns running QF and Jet*, holding our nerve can only result in a better future for the entire group both QF and Jet*. Maybe I'm dreaming too.
Last edited by Nunc; 31st Jul 2011 at 04:15. Reason: spelling
Can anyone with an 'industrial relations expertise' confirm or deny a rumour I heard the other day; that being if you are made redundant whilst on LWOP, you forfeit your redundancy package?
If this is true, it would be a brave person to take LWOP from Q so as to fly with J*. If (perhaps when) Q start making people redundant, you would lose you entitlements.
Would be very handy for Q!!
Any one have a reference to the relevant legislation?
Cool names
If this is true, it would be a brave person to take LWOP from Q so as to fly with J*. If (perhaps when) Q start making people redundant, you would lose you entitlements.
Would be very handy for Q!!
Any one have a reference to the relevant legislation?
Cool names
A friend who is a 767 Captain commenced LWOP this week. He insisted and Qantas obliged in his letter authorising LWOP that if redundancy was offered while he was gone that he would be able to access it. Qantas were only to happy to oblige.
Last on/first off and 6 months notice, that's it.
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Were Kendell's simultaneously screaming pilot shortage and making plans for mass recruitment in one wholly owned subsidiary whilst making pilots redundant in another? The circumstances seem quite different.
Here's a link to the judgment Kendell's Redundancy[.pdf]. Perhaps someone with a legal background could give a view.
Here's a link to the judgment Kendell's Redundancy[.pdf]. Perhaps someone with a legal background could give a view.
Yea they do seem quite different. Sadly though, there is a similar precedent, which in a general sense, seems to suggest that there are ways around those sort of clauses if management gets desperate enough. Hopefully there is a way around it all anyway without the need for redundancies.
JQ & commuting
Do any of the captains commute to DRW? Is it possible with the rosters? Is it possible with the limited number of flights? Do you get many days at home?
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With regard to Last In First Out (LIFO) can I just share an experience from a previous airline. When Voluntary Redundancy was being offered around and the possibility of Compulsory Redundancies LIFO was being bandied about as the way it would happen. Problem was that the Airline (Legacy Carrier) had other ideas. Upon further investigation it proved that due to human rights legislation in the European Union LIFO had recently been deemed to be illegal due to age discrimination, the more junior pilots tended to be younger. Also it was deemed to be 'unfair' on the company due to having to make people redundant from positions that then had to be filled by training someone else. For example if it is the 767 fleet that QF wants to put out the door (no idea just a random pick), using LIFO then second officers from the 747 etc would have to be made redundant and then the 767 pilots retrained over to the 747. After much negotiation the union and airline came up with a point system to determine who would be made redundant, it went along the lines of:
Each Year in the Airline = +1
Sim Score deviation from Average = +/- Average
Annual Sick Day Average = - Average
And so it went on, there were about 15 variables including a big weighting towards which fleet, thankfully it never came to CR as enough VR candidates came forward and 80ish pilots left the airline.
Just be warned, the assumption that LIFO is the way it will go (if there are any redundancies) may lead to a big surprise, I am sure Qantas would rather make a 'fleet' redundant than retrain.
Each Year in the Airline = +1
Sim Score deviation from Average = +/- Average
Annual Sick Day Average = - Average
And so it went on, there were about 15 variables including a big weighting towards which fleet, thankfully it never came to CR as enough VR candidates came forward and 80ish pilots left the airline.
Just be warned, the assumption that LIFO is the way it will go (if there are any redundancies) may lead to a big surprise, I am sure Qantas would rather make a 'fleet' redundant than retrain.
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Is that under the MOU Boeingboy ? It states that only if you wish to stay for longer than 3 years or take an upgrade from F/O to Capt that you would have to resign . Interesting .
Virgin Australia hiring substantially by year end. Might interest lower seniority B737 FO's
Also
‪Forecast: staggering demand for pilots and technicians‬‏ - YouTube
Also
‪Forecast: staggering demand for pilots and technicians‬‏ - YouTube
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Vaustralia also running 3 intakes for the rest of the year. This could appeal to S/Os at QF. Salary should be up to $77k ++ Super/overtime Per Diems. B777 type rating provided.
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Can anyone with an 'industrial relations expertise' confirm or deny a rumour I heard the other day; that being if you are made redundant whilst on LWOP, you forfeit your redundancy package?
If this is true, it would be a brave person to take LWOP from Q so as to fly with J*. If (perhaps when) Q start making people redundant, you would lose you entitlements.
Would be very handy for Q!!
Any one have a reference to the relevant legislation?
Cool names
If this is true, it would be a brave person to take LWOP from Q so as to fly with J*. If (perhaps when) Q start making people redundant, you would lose you entitlements.
Would be very handy for Q!!
Any one have a reference to the relevant legislation?
Cool names
Firstly there is nothing that I am aware of that prohibits an employer in offering LWOP arrangements. Likewise there is nothing that forces an employee to take up an offer.
From what I can gather from the various posts on the matter, a QF pilot will under the terms of the MOU remain employed by QF during the LWOP period up until a "sunset" date (ie up to 3 years). After that sunset date the terms of the MOU cease to exist.
The question is - can QF in that 3 year period make you redundant? Firstly, by definition redundancy is for a position, not a person. It might seem like semantics, but it is important in such a scenario.
An employer can in the event of "changes to the operational requirements" make a genuine redundancy. But a genuine redundancy does not occur if the employee can be redeployed within the business (in this scenario, very unlikely) or within an associated entity of the employer (mmm....who could that be??)
There is the possibility that QF could as a result of 'operational requirements' (restructure etc) make a number of pilot positions redundant. If all of those positions were previously filled by pilots on LWOP who are now under an MOU flying for J*, the positions may not fall within the definition of genuine redundnacy because those very pilots are working within an associated entity".
The scenario that gets really interesting is if lets say a pilot takes 3 years LWOP, does not accept an upgrade etc, and then seeks to return to QF, however the position this pilot previously occupied was made "redundant". QF could redeploy to an associated entity and as I understand it that pilot would still be employed by by an associated entity.
It's pretty complex to try and explain but that's my pennies worth and open to others views if they have more details on the arrangement on offer.
short flights long nights
And we are assuming in all of this, that in 3 years time there will be a Qantas to go back to.
