Fallacy or Fact - Qantas International losses
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There is a person out there who is highly respected by all who know him. A man of great integrity, a devout Christian, he resigned a while back due to "personal/health" reasons but these must have been resolved as he was working again within a few months. If, and it is a very big if, he were ever compelled to say what he knows, I reckon the whole ediface will fall down..........I'd say he has quite a story to tell.
Last edited by Jackneville; 27th Jul 2011 at 23:44.
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Seat 1A,
The question you ask about QF leasing aircraft to JQ becomes even more interesting if you read this article.
Subleases to sister help struggling Jetstar Asia post $4.5m profit
According to the article, a precedent may have already been set where aircraft are cross leased within the group at other than market rates.
Jetstar Asia failed to respond to the Herald over the weekend on speculation that several of its senior managers, including its chief financial officer, had resigned. Nor would the airline's Singapore management comment on suspicions its maiden profit had been propped up through its relationship with its Australian sister airline, Jetstar, to which it subleases three of its 10 Airbus A320s.
The accounts show Jetstar Asia earned $S21.8 million in "sublease" revenue in the 12 months, against $S12.5 million the previous year. It has four jets leased out altogether.
Jetstar Asia did not explain why its subleasing revenue rose the same year it transferred the three jets it had leased to the Turkish airline AtlasJet to the Australian Jetstar. Jetstar took delivery of the aircraft in December 2007.
A spokesman for Jetstar Australia, Simon Westaway, said the jets were leased at a "commercial" rate.
The figures suggest the Singaporean airline is possibly being subsidised by the subleasing of its three A320s to the Australian franchise at a higher rate.
Also, from the same article :
Who paid for the seconded employees' salaries and support services?
The question you ask about QF leasing aircraft to JQ becomes even more interesting if you read this article.
Subleases to sister help struggling Jetstar Asia post $4.5m profit
According to the article, a precedent may have already been set where aircraft are cross leased within the group at other than market rates.
Jetstar Asia failed to respond to the Herald over the weekend on speculation that several of its senior managers, including its chief financial officer, had resigned. Nor would the airline's Singapore management comment on suspicions its maiden profit had been propped up through its relationship with its Australian sister airline, Jetstar, to which it subleases three of its 10 Airbus A320s.
The accounts show Jetstar Asia earned $S21.8 million in "sublease" revenue in the 12 months, against $S12.5 million the previous year. It has four jets leased out altogether.
Jetstar Asia did not explain why its subleasing revenue rose the same year it transferred the three jets it had leased to the Turkish airline AtlasJet to the Australian Jetstar. Jetstar took delivery of the aircraft in December 2007.
A spokesman for Jetstar Australia, Simon Westaway, said the jets were leased at a "commercial" rate.
The figures suggest the Singaporean airline is possibly being subsidised by the subleasing of its three A320s to the Australian franchise at a higher rate.
Qantas also acknowledges in its annual report that it "has seconded employees and provided various support services" to the airline.
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And the real worry is if the Australian Taxation Office (ATO) ever gets wind that the Company(s) Taxation Returns do not accurately show correct, corroborated Income and Expenditure for each Legal Entity and it follows, the correct level of Taxation assessed for each Legal Entity.
Mike
Mike
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Do you not agree that QF operates the oldest and most fuel inefficient fleet compared to our competitors? Can you tell me the fuel burn of a 777 versus a 747 on the routes we operate? Even though some aircraft are depreciated to an extent, as they age the reliability and maintenance expenses offset the advantages.
The Dugong is not old, yet it is 'rumoured' that once you crunch the numbers it it is less profitable to the group running this a/c than using one of the old 747's on the same route. Nice one.
What is Dixon's role and ownership in regard to Aircraft Leasing companies and Contract Cabin Crew companies? Was this occurring while he was still CEO of QF? Is he contracting Cabin Crew to Qantas and Leasing Aircraft to Qantas at present?
Now we are getting down to the nuts and bolts. May the digging continue.
There is a person out there who is highly respected by all who know him. A man of great integrity, a devout Christian, he resigned a while back due to "personal/health" reasons but these must have been resolved as he was working again within a few months. If, and it is a very big if, he were ever compelled to say what he knows, I reckon the whole ediface would fall down..........I'd say he has quite a story tell.
Agreed. He was the only senior person with an ounce of integrity.
I would not make allegations of illegality if I were you. I'm sure QF has reams of legal opinions advising that everything is fair and above board.
..Whether QF complies with the ASX listing rules might be another matter, but I wouldn't know.
I think QF is also counting on the fact that there is no independent forensic legal and accounting expertise in Australia that can authoritatively analyse QF, as a certain poster has recently commented.
... I've been expecting the "It's complicated" assertion for some time. I wasn't disappointed.
..Whether QF complies with the ASX listing rules might be another matter, but I wouldn't know.
I think QF is also counting on the fact that there is no independent forensic legal and accounting expertise in Australia that can authoritatively analyse QF, as a certain poster has recently commented.
... I've been expecting the "It's complicated" assertion for some time. I wasn't disappointed.
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A little bit closer to home: Qantas International is making a loss but Qantas Domestic is profitable.
Who pays for the following, "QF International" or "QF Domestic"
- Flight Despatch
- Integtrated Operations Centre
- Simulators
- the gate house at the SYD Jetbase
- Yield Management
- Load Control
- Port Control
- The Chief Pilot's wages
Etc, etc.
Who pays for the following, "QF International" or "QF Domestic"
- Flight Despatch
- Integtrated Operations Centre
- Simulators
- the gate house at the SYD Jetbase
- Yield Management
- Load Control
- Port Control
- The Chief Pilot's wages
Etc, etc.
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Steve, once you have put the list together it may be of interest to Steve Cannane of Lateline. His investigative reporting of the Jetstar Flight Attendant fatighe issue was very thorough and has had BB on the back foot in the media this morning. He seemed to have trouble with his lies when Lateline had copies of individuals incident reports on this issue.
A simple media friendly story of "Qantas' death in Australia based on a lie" along with some supporting evidence may interest them.
A simple media friendly story of "Qantas' death in Australia based on a lie" along with some supporting evidence may interest them.
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Apparently punters who purchase a star class ticket on J* international are entitled access to the Qf business class lounge. If that is the case, how much does j* pay? Does Qf bear the cost for them?
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Is it true AJ and GD still have lunch every week?
Mind you, nothing like the occasional battered sav for lunch !
I would not make allegations of illegality if I were you. I'm sure QF has reams of legal opinions advising that everything is fair and above board.
This first one is 100% fact, Steve PM me for a copy of the INTAM if you want proof. It was a slightly unusual situation but it shows the mindset of management:
After the Christchurch earthquake, CHC fuel rationing was instigated at 40% of normal uplift levels. The following instruction was given to the respective international arms:
So there it is, why one rule for one part of the airline and another for the other?
Other ideas in answer to your opening question:
In a domestic terminal such as Melbourne where Jetstar share the use of the departure gates, who pays for the security screening of the passengers and crew? And as asked before, do Jetstar pay for the check in and gate space at the terminal?
and
With regards to Express Freighters Australia. How can management justify employing 4 pilots to do 2 pilots jobs. i.e. the EFA767. There are 767 pilots doing very low hours in mainline being paid a minimum guaranteed wage (paid for work that they do not do as there is no work to do!). These pilots could have flown the freighter at little or no extra cost because as I mentioned they are being paid anyway for hours not flown. It's not that difficult to conclude that no matter how cheap the EFA pilots are, employing 2 pilots to do a flight when there were already 2 pilots available to do it and having a net of 4 pilots employed for the flight makes no sense at all. Then Joyce has the gall to turn around and have a go at Qf International for being inefficient. Give me a break.
As an aside, when Joyce was asked in a meeting as to why the above was so, his answer was that ‘they needed to see if EFA could survive as a separate entity’. Is he serious? If the QF accountants cannot figure that out without having to waste money on extra crews than this airline is in even more trouble that we thought and a thorough review of the company’s accounts is in order (as if it wasn’t anyway!).
All the best and stay united everyone.
After the Christchurch earthquake, CHC fuel rationing was instigated at 40% of normal uplift levels. The following instruction was given to the respective international arms:
So there it is, why one rule for one part of the airline and another for the other?
Other ideas in answer to your opening question:
In a domestic terminal such as Melbourne where Jetstar share the use of the departure gates, who pays for the security screening of the passengers and crew? And as asked before, do Jetstar pay for the check in and gate space at the terminal?
and
With regards to Express Freighters Australia. How can management justify employing 4 pilots to do 2 pilots jobs. i.e. the EFA767. There are 767 pilots doing very low hours in mainline being paid a minimum guaranteed wage (paid for work that they do not do as there is no work to do!). These pilots could have flown the freighter at little or no extra cost because as I mentioned they are being paid anyway for hours not flown. It's not that difficult to conclude that no matter how cheap the EFA pilots are, employing 2 pilots to do a flight when there were already 2 pilots available to do it and having a net of 4 pilots employed for the flight makes no sense at all. Then Joyce has the gall to turn around and have a go at Qf International for being inefficient. Give me a break.
As an aside, when Joyce was asked in a meeting as to why the above was so, his answer was that ‘they needed to see if EFA could survive as a separate entity’. Is he serious? If the QF accountants cannot figure that out without having to waste money on extra crews than this airline is in even more trouble that we thought and a thorough review of the company’s accounts is in order (as if it wasn’t anyway!).
All the best and stay united everyone.
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Is Qantas actually gifting Jetstar money???
Heard a rumor that Qantas is paying Jetstar $6,000 a night for carrying Freight, but........ No freight is actually carried??? ( am told this is ex Manila)
Anyone else heard or can confirm or deny this???
Anyone else heard or can confirm or deny this???
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J* Cadetship T's and C's. sly?
Spoke to QF hosty. Her brother a Jet* NZ cadet. Flown by company on day 1 to NZ to open bank account. 5 hours later back in Melbourne residing at what was previously Hilton Airport Hotel. Lives there permanently. Earns NZ wage, no super etc etc. Can't break bond or massive financial disadvantage.
Q. How is it legal?
Q. Who actually pays him? Where is his remuneration deposited?
Q. Where does he fly to?
millions of questions, HOW HOW HOW....?
btw. obviously he was earning way less than her. not great if you know what they earn.
2B
Q. How is it legal?
Q. Who actually pays him? Where is his remuneration deposited?
Q. Where does he fly to?
millions of questions, HOW HOW HOW....?
btw. obviously he was earning way less than her. not great if you know what they earn.
2B
Spoke to QF hosty. Her brother a Jet* NZ cadet. Flown by company on day 1 to NZ to open bank account. 5 hours later back in Melbourne residing at what was previously Hilton Airport Hotel. Lives there permanently. Earns NZ wage, no super etc etc. Can't break bond or massive financial disadvantage.
Q. How is it legal?
Q. Who actually pays him? Where is his remuneration deposited?
Q. Where does he fly to?
millions of questions, HOW HOW HOW....?
Q. How is it legal?
Q. Who actually pays him? Where is his remuneration deposited?
Q. Where does he fly to?
millions of questions, HOW HOW HOW....?
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2008 Jetconnect under the ex Australian Airlines General Manager and ex Australian Airlines Chief Pilot inherits the Qantas sweet of manuals and training system for zero outlay.
I know Qantas mainline paid for this.
I know Qantas mainline paid for this.
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BARBARA MILLER: Senator Nick Xenophon says Qantas owns a significant part, 37 per cent of Tour East Thailand, that is sort of pretending that this is a company at arm's length when in actual fact it's an integral part of the group.
BRUCE BUCHANAN: I think that's completely false. And you know their ownership through the relationship with HTT is part of the wholesale structure that they use to provide a land content for the business.
And Tour East business has expanded into some of these other areas. It's not part of the Qantas Group and Qantas Group has a minority interest in that business.
BARBARA MILLER: Thirty seven per cent's quite a large stake.
BRUCE BUCHANAN: It's still a minority interest. They can't call the shots in that business.
So is J* Asia and Pacific part of the Qantas Group?
and
Who "calls the shots"?
BRUCE BUCHANAN: I think that's completely false. And you know their ownership through the relationship with HTT is part of the wholesale structure that they use to provide a land content for the business.
And Tour East business has expanded into some of these other areas. It's not part of the Qantas Group and Qantas Group has a minority interest in that business.
BARBARA MILLER: Thirty seven per cent's quite a large stake.
BRUCE BUCHANAN: It's still a minority interest. They can't call the shots in that business.
So is J* Asia and Pacific part of the Qantas Group?
and
Who "calls the shots"?
I hope that Geoffrey Thomas reads this thread, takes notes and then proceeds to ask Joyce and Buchanan for some quantative answers.