"Exploiting Asian Markets" - Irish Suicide.
What exactly is Plan B then?
2/Invest in modern aircraft on viable routes internationally and fly all the way to the destination providing high quality service.
3/De-segment the business so that one areas gain is not the next areas loss. ie manager A doesn't get a bonus for reducing manpower in his/her section at the expense of OTP or at cost to the next section.
4/Create some sort of dialog between the experts (operational staff) and the managers as to where efficiencies lie. Not a temporary dialog, a system for letting the information flow.....and then act on it when appropriate.
5/ Watch the airline compete.
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It was me; I was in a bad mood.
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Most people learn from their mistakes! I'm no genius but Australian Airlines to Japan- Gone. Margaret Jackson does send her thanks though. Jetstar in Vietnam- huge mess! Ask the two managers what they think of doing business in Asia is like. No offence to our Asian friends.
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Lets also not forget that even though China is going gangbusters, some people regard them as a giant bubble that could tank anytime. They are doing whatever they can to keep the GDP high and that includes building any structures they can. Type in Chinas Ghost Cities into google and youtube and see what shows up 
Very very scary stuff.
Wouldn't want to be exposed to Asian markets if the crap hits the fan and everyone is running for the exits. New start up Airlines will become bone yards quick smart.
I guess they have done their research and extensive risk assessments on the planned business expansions
Fingers crossed China and others keep us all afloat lol
Very very scary stuff.
Wouldn't want to be exposed to Asian markets if the crap hits the fan and everyone is running for the exits. New start up Airlines will become bone yards quick smart.
I guess they have done their research and extensive risk assessments on the planned business expansions
Fingers crossed China and others keep us all afloat lol
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Sunfish, Your best post ever. AIPA take it, clean it up a bit, Get a lawyer to check it, take one page of the Australian and put it out there for all to see. It will do more than any PA, it will make MP'S sit up and notice, business people will identify and see the sense in it, it will give hope to a battling QF staff, and it will make the public aware that they could lose their national carrier, and it will make utter gooses out of the board and Joyce. Can't afford it? I think most of us would be happy to throw some money in to get it out there. 
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and it will make the public aware that they could lose their national carrier
People need to be given a reason to fly QF, because it's Australian & expensive isn't a reason, If QF was Australian and matched the prices of foreign carriers then people may start drifting back and If QF were Australian, matched the prices of foreign carriers AND had excellent service then people will probably come in thier droves.
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So, the public are aware, it's still not going to stop them flying SQ CX EK QR etc.
People need to be given a reason to fly QF, because it's Australian & expensive isn't a reason, If QF was Australian and matched the prices of foreign carriers then people may start drifting back and If QF were Australian, matched the prices of foreign carriers AND had excellent service then people will probably come in thier droves.
People need to be given a reason to fly QF, because it's Australian & expensive isn't a reason, If QF was Australian and matched the prices of foreign carriers then people may start drifting back and If QF were Australian, matched the prices of foreign carriers AND had excellent service then people will probably come in thier droves.
EK prices highly out of Dubai because they are the only airline, most of the time, that can take people DXB-Europe direct, or DXB-USA direct. SQ prices highly ex SIN because they are the only airline that takes you to Sao Paulo and Houston without a change of plane, or to Copenhagen and Rome without going via DXB or a European hub. As such, EK and SQ from their respective home markets can charge a premium for getting you to your destination from DXB and SIN direct, as opposed to competitors like TG or BA who get you to continental Europe with a stop via BKK or LHR.
Plus with home carrier advantage, especially for business travellers who will be loyal to the FFP programme, the home airline can by and large charge what they like, and the home population will flock to fly them.
QF is an aberration though. They may be the home carrier of Australia and they attempt to charge high prices, but does not play the same role as what home carriers of most other markets do:
1. QF cannot take most Australians in fewer stops to other destinations than competing airlines, especially if you don't live in Sydney. SQ rapes you ex SIN to take you non stop to Copenhagen, but you're paying for the privilege to fly the only SIN-CPH direct flight. QF on the other hand tries to rape Australians for flying two stops SYD-SIN-LHR-CPH, when (insert the myriad of airlines here) can do it for one-stop and at a cheaper price too
2. QF does not have much of a competitive advantage in the home market in terms of frequent flyer loyalty and things like that because foreign airlines like SIA and EK have tie-ups with banks and other consumer businesses in Australia
3. QF's market share in their home market is among the lowest of any country. 18% for Australia in total. If you remove the USA and NZ and count only countries West of Australia, it would probably fall to 10%. In contrast, the SIA Group (with Silk Air) has 42% of the SIN market (it rises to 50% if you include that unmentionable Tiger), CX has just under 40% of HKG, EK has 60% of DXB etc. Significant market share means significant pricing power. QF is trying to charge an arm and a leg ex Australia, but WITHOUT significant marketshare.
I have had Australians friends express slight embarrassment to me whenever they see the Tourism Australia Ads screened internationally, where they show the nice sights and sounds of Australia, which ends with "Let Singapore Airlines take you to Australia" and a short clip of the Singapore Girl smiling and the A380 cabin being shown. Looks "wrong" after all the shots of Ayers Rock, the Sydney harbour and kangaroos hopping around, they say! But the fact is SIA can play a far more meaningful role in bringing tourists into Australia compared to QF, due to its far larger network.
Where QF has the advantage though, is the domestic FFP programme. Many Australians I know who clock up significant mileage on domestic QF flights (and attain Gold, Plat as a result) tend to like to stick with QF on international flights.
However this advantage may soon be eroded with Virgin Australia's tie up with SQ, EY and DL. Especially with SQ, Virgin Plat now gives you the exact same privileges as Krisflyer Gold. Plus, no amount of status can compensate for taking longer to reach your final destination in continental Europe, and a change of planes, terminals and transfer process through LHR at 6am.
And patriotism? Well the fact is around 90% of Australians who travel West of Australia do not take Qantas. Not that you're not a patriotic lot, but you're a pragmatic lot who doesn't want to pay more to get less!
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I disagree. Australians by their very nature are apathetic to most things, but to some things they are protective. The Anzac tradition is the first, Qantas is second. Sure they fly the cheapest, but they still marry the airline and the country together. They still marry the airline and its history as a very important part of the country's history. The people are now starting to stir, my old buddy, a MP (lib) tells me, the people are sending in emails of protest about the possibility of QF going offshore, they believe it is not a Asian airline, but a Australian airline, and Australian jobs and the future for young Australians is paramount . I would not write off Mr. and Mrs Average just yet.
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Hey, leprechauns guard a pot of gold, don't they? He's sure going to need it, to fund his huge "Asian Market Penetration Drive"... 
I'm not sure what's in the LIBM's scheme. AFAI understood, Qantas is a recognised Brand Name. Just like Kellogs, Macca's, Disney, etc, etc. Qantas is recognised world wide as THE Australian airline with THE unparalleled safety record.
No pax fatality in the jet age, blah blah (despite a few VERY close shaves!), translates into... "Qantas has never had an accident of any kind", to most airline seat-warmers, who mostly have to be informed, which is the pointy end of the 'plane.
Never mind, these pax are happy, safe-feeling, and basking in a warm cosy glow, that they are flying on the "safest airline in the world, with an unparalleled (no) accident record", when the cabin crew finally shut the doors.
This feeling, and the company image, is worth a lot of money, to any airline. It's the MAJOR factor that keeps the customers coming, and differentiates them from any other airline, that might have similar-coloured planes, and similarly-dressed pilots and FO's.
I would guess that the LIBM has in mind, that this will be a big selling point to the Chinese. Herein lies a VERY large question mark. Will it matter to the Chinese? Or will they be happier flying on planes with "China" somewhere in the name?
I agree wholeheartedly with Sunfish's leading post and dissertation. I think he's spot-on. Operating in China isn't just like starting a depot in Kiwiland. It's a whole new ball game, and I don't think the LIBM has much of an idea, of just exactly what he IS taking on.
Maybe it's that he doesn't really care. Maybe he's just another corporate CEO clone, identical to all the rest.
The modus operandi is... keep demanding and collecting your $30M salary, and keep complaining about how much you do to earn it... then when you f**k the company with some unbelievably idiotic corporate decision-making... grab your $20M bonus and do a runner.
Some other corporate CEO would-be, will be left to sort out the s**t you left behind... but you won't care... you'll have "moved on", and be telling another bunch of sucker shareholders and angry employees of the new company you're now "managing"... of the fabulous plans you have in mind, to turn this new company around....
I'm not sure what's in the LIBM's scheme. AFAI understood, Qantas is a recognised Brand Name. Just like Kellogs, Macca's, Disney, etc, etc. Qantas is recognised world wide as THE Australian airline with THE unparalleled safety record.
No pax fatality in the jet age, blah blah (despite a few VERY close shaves!), translates into... "Qantas has never had an accident of any kind", to most airline seat-warmers, who mostly have to be informed, which is the pointy end of the 'plane.
Never mind, these pax are happy, safe-feeling, and basking in a warm cosy glow, that they are flying on the "safest airline in the world, with an unparalleled (no) accident record", when the cabin crew finally shut the doors.
This feeling, and the company image, is worth a lot of money, to any airline. It's the MAJOR factor that keeps the customers coming, and differentiates them from any other airline, that might have similar-coloured planes, and similarly-dressed pilots and FO's.
I would guess that the LIBM has in mind, that this will be a big selling point to the Chinese. Herein lies a VERY large question mark. Will it matter to the Chinese? Or will they be happier flying on planes with "China" somewhere in the name?
I agree wholeheartedly with Sunfish's leading post and dissertation. I think he's spot-on. Operating in China isn't just like starting a depot in Kiwiland. It's a whole new ball game, and I don't think the LIBM has much of an idea, of just exactly what he IS taking on.
Maybe it's that he doesn't really care. Maybe he's just another corporate CEO clone, identical to all the rest.
The modus operandi is... keep demanding and collecting your $30M salary, and keep complaining about how much you do to earn it... then when you f**k the company with some unbelievably idiotic corporate decision-making... grab your $20M bonus and do a runner.
Some other corporate CEO would-be, will be left to sort out the s**t you left behind... but you won't care... you'll have "moved on", and be telling another bunch of sucker shareholders and angry employees of the new company you're now "managing"... of the fabulous plans you have in mind, to turn this new company around....
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Wrong again....
Ahhhh. The anti qantas meeting thread has run out steam and the mindless sheep are off and running again about asian markets.
Few things:
I am pretty sure qantas has run some financials on the virtues investing in asia. They probably even hired some fairly smart minds to assist with, that is to say, smarter than a bunch of negative and burned out old airline farts and GA halfwits who have subscriptions to Australian Flying magazine.
Secondly, what has it got to do with you anyway? Most other large aussie companies are going offshore but somehow qantas cant do so.....why not exactly? Its none of your business at the end of the day.
Thirdly, have none of you noticed what a bunch of mindless sooks you sound like. Insolent Little brats who would lick the feet of a qantas recruiter to gain employment one day and then spend the rest of your days trying to it down. Mindless little sheep who need to get out of your houses and see how the big bad world really turns.
Finally, Dick Smith is a great australian who has achieved more and contributed more to aviation and general society than all of you put together.
You are entitled to an opinion, you have now had it so maybe shut up and get back to work. Losers!
Few things:
I am pretty sure qantas has run some financials on the virtues investing in asia. They probably even hired some fairly smart minds to assist with, that is to say, smarter than a bunch of negative and burned out old airline farts and GA halfwits who have subscriptions to Australian Flying magazine.
Secondly, what has it got to do with you anyway? Most other large aussie companies are going offshore but somehow qantas cant do so.....why not exactly? Its none of your business at the end of the day.
Thirdly, have none of you noticed what a bunch of mindless sooks you sound like. Insolent Little brats who would lick the feet of a qantas recruiter to gain employment one day and then spend the rest of your days trying to it down. Mindless little sheep who need to get out of your houses and see how the big bad world really turns.
Finally, Dick Smith is a great australian who has achieved more and contributed more to aviation and general society than all of you put together.
You are entitled to an opinion, you have now had it so maybe shut up and get back to work. Losers!
Victor 2,
Would these "smart minds" used by Qantas to run the Qantasia numbers be like the geniuses who ordered the domestic galleys to be put into the A330-200? Any burnt out old fart who reads Australian Flying could have saved Qantas millions by telling the geniuses that the -200 was the long-range variant.
Why don't you shut up and go back to kissing management's butt.
Would these "smart minds" used by Qantas to run the Qantasia numbers be like the geniuses who ordered the domestic galleys to be put into the A330-200? Any burnt out old fart who reads Australian Flying could have saved Qantas millions by telling the geniuses that the -200 was the long-range variant.
Why don't you shut up and go back to kissing management's butt.
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Victor Two. On this forum you are permitted your opinion however there is an expectation you will respect the various opinions of other users, whether you agree or disagree, without the use of derogatory terms.
That is not an acceptable response. If you find this thread overly vexatious I am happy to change your access rights so you won't see this thread?
You are entitled to an opinion, you have now had it so maybe shut up and get back to work. Losers!
Thread Starter
V2:
1. I'm sure "Qantas has run some financials", however there is considerably more to a successful operation in Asia than that. That is my point.
To put that another way, you are saying the equivalent of: "anyone can fly a B747, just read the manual".
2. The fate of Qantas has a lot to do with the patterns of economic growth in Australian States. Air travel, specifically frequent direct flights, is of critical importance in overseas investment decisions. While it isn't so bad now, the behaviour of Qantas is of critical importance to regional development.
To put that another way, if getting around Australia was as simple as calling a cab, I wouldn't give a flying toss about Qantas. Unfortunately that is not the case.
I am pretty sure qantas has run some financials on the virtues investing in asia. They probably even hired some fairly smart minds to assist with, that is to say, smarter than a bunch of negative and burned out old airline farts and GA halfwits who have subscriptions to Australian Flying magazine.
Secondly, what has it got to do with you anyway? Most other large aussie companies are going offshore but somehow qantas cant do so.....why not exactly? Its none of your business at the end of the day.
Secondly, what has it got to do with you anyway? Most other large aussie companies are going offshore but somehow qantas cant do so.....why not exactly? Its none of your business at the end of the day.
To put that another way, you are saying the equivalent of: "anyone can fly a B747, just read the manual".
2. The fate of Qantas has a lot to do with the patterns of economic growth in Australian States. Air travel, specifically frequent direct flights, is of critical importance in overseas investment decisions. While it isn't so bad now, the behaviour of Qantas is of critical importance to regional development.
To put that another way, if getting around Australia was as simple as calling a cab, I wouldn't give a flying toss about Qantas. Unfortunately that is not the case.
Last edited by Sunfish; 28th Aug 2011 at 06:01.
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Mmmm, it was nice of Victor Two to add his valuable, constructive and thoughtful opinions to this thread.
I'll wager he runs his dept along the same lines, and with the same applied skills, too. Savage, belittling abuse, bullying and harrassment, are such useful skills, when you have no real leadership ability.
I'll wager he runs his dept along the same lines, and with the same applied skills, too. Savage, belittling abuse, bullying and harrassment, are such useful skills, when you have no real leadership ability.
Secondly, what has it got to do with you anyway?
Its none of your business at the end of the day.
Disclaimer: I'm not a QF shareholder.