Globalisation debt & banking
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Originally Posted by Alan Greenspan
In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.his is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.his is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard.
note: Owning gold was illegal in the US until 1973 & the US abondoned the gold Standard in 1971
This is why my youtube video's above on Greenspan's Bubbles make interesting listening.
Personal opinion only follows:
Get out of debt? Debt for consumption (cars, houses, holidays etc) yes. Debt that produces real income (business, farming & mining), not clear cut.
I'll get back to you with a post on the pro's and con's of various assets in a while.
warren, in the mean time think about why any asset with no counterparty risk may the "store of value" of choice in the future, to move wealth forward in time. (google is your friend if you want to skip ahead)
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Waza, better than gold is a gun!
He has a good point though, and this should be the focus of the thread.
We can talk about all of this gobbledegook till the cows come home, but what can we do about it - prepare??
Perhaps:-
Get your gun license to protect your family.
When capitalism breaks down, and society starts to fall apart, like in Greece (and it really hasn't started there yet!) and the Middle East, who's going to protect your family?
Alvin Toffler's Book "The Third Wave" (and 4th wave) and written in 1980 describes the various changes that society is going through.
The Third Wave
He has a good point though, and this should be the focus of the thread.
We can talk about all of this gobbledegook till the cows come home, but what can we do about it - prepare??
Perhaps:-
Get your gun license to protect your family.
When capitalism breaks down, and society starts to fall apart, like in Greece (and it really hasn't started there yet!) and the Middle East, who's going to protect your family?
Alvin Toffler's Book "The Third Wave" (and 4th wave) and written in 1980 describes the various changes that society is going through.
The Third Wave
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Novus Ordo Seclorum
warren9, you are learning fast. Gold and Silver are the way to go, particularly gold. These metals through history have been a source of value. You cant 'print' gold, you cant fake real gold, you cant copy real gold. Paper money literally isn't worth a pile of panther piss.
Yes, gold and silver prices can be manipulated but will always retain value. When the sh*t hits the fan financially in the very near future Foie gras may be spot on, buy a gun as there will be anarchy.
The USA Federal Reserve System (sorry I mean the Rothschilds, Carnegies, Morgans, Rockefellers and Chases ) have a lot to answer for.
Yes, gold and silver prices can be manipulated but will always retain value. When the sh*t hits the fan financially in the very near future Foie gras may be spot on, buy a gun as there will be anarchy.
The USA Federal Reserve System (sorry I mean the Rothschilds, Carnegies, Morgans, Rockefellers and Chases ) have a lot to answer for.
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I will take all of your arguments one step further.
If it really hits the fan, gold cannot feed, clothe or shelter me.
Productive land can do the first and give me the means to barter for the 2nd and 3rd.
Why not just aquire productive land? After all, it too is also a finite resource.
The trick will be defending it. Gold easier to defend than land? Maybe I've answered my own question.
If it really hits the fan, gold cannot feed, clothe or shelter me.
Productive land can do the first and give me the means to barter for the 2nd and 3rd.
Why not just aquire productive land? After all, it too is also a finite resource.
The trick will be defending it. Gold easier to defend than land? Maybe I've answered my own question.
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Productive land doesnt produce ready made trade. Even the best agricultural land requires farming, machinery, planting, seeding, watering, etc etc, and it all costs $$$$. Gold could pay for those 'tools' that will make your land productive.
Sorry warren9, your 'own question' remains unanswered !!!!
Sorry warren9, your 'own question' remains unanswered !!!!
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Dont disagree gobbledock,but if you control productive land, you control food supply and everything else downstream of that.
I am not suggesting going and buying a paddock down the road.
I am not suggesting going and buying a paddock down the road.
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Skull and Bones
Another sure way to gain wealth is to marry into the Rothschilds (Red Shields) but that is not possible because you have to either 'interbreed' (however they changed that rule in the late 1800's) or you have to be already extremely wealthy. Or you could ask to borrow some of the worlds entire gold supply from the Vatican (around 10% of the worlds supply is owned by the Catholic church). That still doesnt top he Rothschild gold that is stashed in secret vaults globally, so much that guestimates put the value as high as, wait for it, $50 trillion. Problem is that they are immune to law, audits, and accountabilty - they are the law.
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Mandrake Syndrome
I bet the Leprechaun and Boston Bruce wish they had been members of the Jekyll Island meeting back in 1910 !!
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Guns? Gold? Prepare for the imminent breakdown of western society? Ok, enough now. You guys are starting to make me nervous. There are heaps of other blogs where you can arc each other up into a paranoid frenzy.
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Warren, here's probably the best summary I have seen in a while about various assets vs paper claims. There is nothing complex about this at all, in fact it is conceptually remarkably simply, something your grandparents or great grandparents would have understood.
Modern finance is deliberately designed to obscure with "apparent" complexity so that you will not be able to see it for what it actually is - a ponzi scheme. This allows to the beneficiaries of the scheme to exchange paper claims for hard assets. In the end, the paper claims will become worthless, while the assets will still be real.
The following is a modification of Exeter's pyramid (I'll post below)
source: The Flow of Value
Exeter's Pyramid with real values included(click on image for larger version)
Anyone who dismisses the role of gold in the financial system demonstrates their complete ignorance. Gold, to this day is the reserve that underpins the whole global economy. Hint, central banks hold thousand of tonnes of it today, this is what the entire system is leveraged off (see Exeter's pyramid).
Modern finance is deliberately designed to obscure with "apparent" complexity so that you will not be able to see it for what it actually is - a ponzi scheme. This allows to the beneficiaries of the scheme to exchange paper claims for hard assets. In the end, the paper claims will become worthless, while the assets will still be real.
The following is a modification of Exeter's pyramid (I'll post below)
Originally Posted by flowofvalue
The Pyramid Scheme
Physical gold is an asset, and as such finds its place at the pinnacle of the asset pyramid of tangibles as the wealth reserve asset, freely chosen by the market in which to store surplus value for any (potentially infinite) length of time. The inverse debt pyramid which stands atop the asset pyramid is composed entirely of abstractions rather than tangibles. These abstractions are all claims on assets, or further derivatives thereof as merely claims on claims, excess claims (synthetically created by being “borrowed” into existence rather than representative of value already created), wagers on the value of this claim or that claim, spreads between claims... the list goes on.
All these claims (ie. the entire inverse debt pyramid) are subject to counter-party risk, which is to say that default will diminish their value. They are promises of payment, dependent upon the means and intent of the debtor (counter-party).
All assets in the tangible pyramid merely are what they are, dependent upon no one in the sense that they are payment in full, already taken.
As claims on assets, the inverse debt pyramid is a derivative of the tangible asset pyramid. Long before any element of the claims pyramid ever came into being, gold was the pinnacle of the asset pyramid as the supreme store of surplus value (wealth) in a barter economy. The first of these claims originated as claims on gold, as notes claiming ownership of x amount of gold stored at y by z (and as such “z” is the issuer of the notes), circulating as a medium of exchange for the sake of convenience. After gaining currency in this function of convenience, the quantity of notes could quietly become greater than the quantity of gold they purported to represent... How Does Paper Find Value?
The values of the assets and the claims had been disconnected.
All monetary claims making up the inverse pyramid are ultimately extensions of credit based originally upon physical gold. These extensions have been steadily inflated for the entire existence of the debt-based monetary system... should physical gold, the wealth reserve asset, cease to be available in exchange for claims upon it, the debt pyramid will deflate. This contraction of credit will not be slow and steady as the inflation was, but rather sudden and catastrophic. Being based purely on confidence in the claims, the situation can and will change as quickly as one can change their mind, with this loss of confidence being known, paradoxically, as hyperinflation. (It will be much like the popping of a bubble, because all this debt in fact is a bubble of epic proportions; when people start finding the utility of an item to be in its value (ie. ever increasing value or capital gain) rather than its normal utility, then it is a bubble.)
Initially, this process creates demand for paper money and paper gold, as whatever value is present in the upper levels of the inverse debt pyramid must pass through these on the way down into gold and the security of the asset pyramid... contracts must be redeemed for dollars before gold and other assets can be purchased, and paper gold is far more readily available than much rarer physical item. This is the deflation which precedes hyperinflation, where the paper currency (cash) increases in value as the value flees the less liquid claims higher up the pyramid. Hyperinflation follows, as the value of physical gold decouples from paper gold claims, and the paper currency circulates faster and faster seeking refuge in anything tangible, becoming practically worthless in the process. This is in reality the deflation of the remains of the inverse pyramid against physical gold, and the consolidation process is complete.
The market has discounted the claims in accord with their true value as given by the assets.
All these claims (ie. the entire inverse debt pyramid) are subject to counter-party risk, which is to say that default will diminish their value. They are promises of payment, dependent upon the means and intent of the debtor (counter-party).
All assets in the tangible pyramid merely are what they are, dependent upon no one in the sense that they are payment in full, already taken.
As claims on assets, the inverse debt pyramid is a derivative of the tangible asset pyramid. Long before any element of the claims pyramid ever came into being, gold was the pinnacle of the asset pyramid as the supreme store of surplus value (wealth) in a barter economy. The first of these claims originated as claims on gold, as notes claiming ownership of x amount of gold stored at y by z (and as such “z” is the issuer of the notes), circulating as a medium of exchange for the sake of convenience. After gaining currency in this function of convenience, the quantity of notes could quietly become greater than the quantity of gold they purported to represent... How Does Paper Find Value?
The values of the assets and the claims had been disconnected.
All monetary claims making up the inverse pyramid are ultimately extensions of credit based originally upon physical gold. These extensions have been steadily inflated for the entire existence of the debt-based monetary system... should physical gold, the wealth reserve asset, cease to be available in exchange for claims upon it, the debt pyramid will deflate. This contraction of credit will not be slow and steady as the inflation was, but rather sudden and catastrophic. Being based purely on confidence in the claims, the situation can and will change as quickly as one can change their mind, with this loss of confidence being known, paradoxically, as hyperinflation. (It will be much like the popping of a bubble, because all this debt in fact is a bubble of epic proportions; when people start finding the utility of an item to be in its value (ie. ever increasing value or capital gain) rather than its normal utility, then it is a bubble.)
Initially, this process creates demand for paper money and paper gold, as whatever value is present in the upper levels of the inverse debt pyramid must pass through these on the way down into gold and the security of the asset pyramid... contracts must be redeemed for dollars before gold and other assets can be purchased, and paper gold is far more readily available than much rarer physical item. This is the deflation which precedes hyperinflation, where the paper currency (cash) increases in value as the value flees the less liquid claims higher up the pyramid. Hyperinflation follows, as the value of physical gold decouples from paper gold claims, and the paper currency circulates faster and faster seeking refuge in anything tangible, becoming practically worthless in the process. This is in reality the deflation of the remains of the inverse pyramid against physical gold, and the consolidation process is complete.
The market has discounted the claims in accord with their true value as given by the assets.
Exeter's Pyramid with real values included(click on image for larger version)
Anyone who dismisses the role of gold in the financial system demonstrates their complete ignorance. Gold, to this day is the reserve that underpins the whole global economy. Hint, central banks hold thousand of tonnes of it today, this is what the entire system is leveraged off (see Exeter's pyramid).
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We will all be increasingly screwed as oil reserves rapidly deplete.
True, money is a myth, increasingly electronic and created out of thin air.
Don't worry about that, we can easily conjure up more, our kids, grandkids and great grandkids will pay the tab.
Worry about energy. Cheap, easily transported liquid energy (AKA Oil) cannot be created. It is a resource we all depend upon, it is depleting at an ever increasing rate.
The above is why Carbon Trading been invented. A megga con.
These people are laughing at us all. Have a look how "the elite" live.
Peter Mandelson parties with super-rich Nat Rothschild in Montenegro | Mail Online
Enjoy your carbon tax, suckers. It will buy someone a fancy yacht or two.
Lid
True, money is a myth, increasingly electronic and created out of thin air.
Don't worry about that, we can easily conjure up more, our kids, grandkids and great grandkids will pay the tab.
Worry about energy. Cheap, easily transported liquid energy (AKA Oil) cannot be created. It is a resource we all depend upon, it is depleting at an ever increasing rate.
The above is why Carbon Trading been invented. A megga con.
These people are laughing at us all. Have a look how "the elite" live.
Peter Mandelson parties with super-rich Nat Rothschild in Montenegro | Mail Online
Enjoy your carbon tax, suckers. It will buy someone a fancy yacht or two.
Lid
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I was waiting for that shoe to drop flying lid...
Consider the "Land Export Model [.pdf]" - wikipedia ELM. Its more than just depletion rates, its also about the exporters domestic consumption increases. Look very closely at slide 18.
Jeff Rubins also covers this (this is 45 min of your time that will be well spent)
Consider the "Land Export Model [.pdf]" - wikipedia ELM. Its more than just depletion rates, its also about the exporters domestic consumption increases. Look very closely at slide 18.
Jeff Rubins also covers this (this is 45 min of your time that will be well spent)
Last edited by breakfastburrito; 11th Jul 2011 at 22:28. Reason: added wikipedia link
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Breakfastburrito, that was an excellent video. Summed up all the important points quite well. Our political leaders do not tell it this way, as it is not to their advantage. Nevermind it will "all out" soon.
Basically cheap (easy to obtain) oil has gone. Prices will rise (for most of us) as a result, quite quickly too. Difficult days ahead for all. Especially for the aviation industry which was built, and depends upon, cheap oil.
Not too sure about carbon tax, though I understand the implications. Will China & India "play by the rules" - I think not. We will see (and pay !!).
My main concern is, given the facts in the video, how our leaders, elite, bankers, China, India, etc, etc will play the situation to their own advantage, (as usual).
Lid
Basically cheap (easy to obtain) oil has gone. Prices will rise (for most of us) as a result, quite quickly too. Difficult days ahead for all. Especially for the aviation industry which was built, and depends upon, cheap oil.
Not too sure about carbon tax, though I understand the implications. Will China & India "play by the rules" - I think not. We will see (and pay !!).
My main concern is, given the facts in the video, how our leaders, elite, bankers, China, India, etc, etc will play the situation to their own advantage, (as usual).
Lid