Qantas: How do We Save It?
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Qantas: How do We Save It?
The decline of Qantas is well documented
We are all outraged,angry and exasperated.
Many ideas have been floated as to how the rat can be rescue
The senate enquiry has delivered its findings but without legislative implementation it is essentially hollow.
As it stands now the future is Orange and the Macchiavellian incompetents that run Qantas will have their way.
There is however an alternative....that we as a group actually do something.
Whatever we do it will require planning resolve and probably money.
There are smarter minds than mine who regularly post here.Surely we can come up with a solution that can be implemented.
I fear that due to inaction Qantas will become an oxidized bronze plaque on some building in Mascot and in years to come bars in foreign ports will be full of stories about the defunct Qantas Airways and why it wasnt saved.
The world is a sad place when brave intelligent men sit idly by and do nothing.
We are all outraged,angry and exasperated.
Many ideas have been floated as to how the rat can be rescue
The senate enquiry has delivered its findings but without legislative implementation it is essentially hollow.
As it stands now the future is Orange and the Macchiavellian incompetents that run Qantas will have their way.
There is however an alternative....that we as a group actually do something.
Whatever we do it will require planning resolve and probably money.
There are smarter minds than mine who regularly post here.Surely we can come up with a solution that can be implemented.
I fear that due to inaction Qantas will become an oxidized bronze plaque on some building in Mascot and in years to come bars in foreign ports will be full of stories about the defunct Qantas Airways and why it wasnt saved.
The world is a sad place when brave intelligent men sit idly by and do nothing.
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Agree with Sunfish.
Short of a complete cleanout of the board and senior management, and their replacements being interested in building the brand, engaging the staff to achieve change and genuinely competing nothing can save QF mainline.
Asset stripped, transfer priced and under resourced to death.
The best we can hope for is for a reasonable redundancy payout.
Short of a complete cleanout of the board and senior management, and their replacements being interested in building the brand, engaging the staff to achieve change and genuinely competing nothing can save QF mainline.
Asset stripped, transfer priced and under resourced to death.
The best we can hope for is for a reasonable redundancy payout.
I don't think its all over yet.
It will take a new CEO and a cleaning out of the board.
Surely the loss of share price, fines for unlawful conduct and jailing of staff and talking down of thier premium product and thus endangering the money making FF program should be enough for the retail investors to push for this.
Its an industry full of people who have a pride in what they do, it just needs a good leader to get it all headed in the right direction.
A good example might be Rob Fyfe at AirNZ and although still early maybe JB at Virgin. Both seem to have maybe taken an organisation with the wheels falling off and put them on a better path. People who work there may think different but the 'vibe' at Qantas is one of poison and distrust.
Jetstar may have been a necessary evil but Qantas needs someone who believes in a premium product, not someone who only believes in destroying and thinking that the only way to run a business is to screw the very people who run it.
It will take a new CEO and a cleaning out of the board.
Surely the loss of share price, fines for unlawful conduct and jailing of staff and talking down of thier premium product and thus endangering the money making FF program should be enough for the retail investors to push for this.
Its an industry full of people who have a pride in what they do, it just needs a good leader to get it all headed in the right direction.
A good example might be Rob Fyfe at AirNZ and although still early maybe JB at Virgin. Both seem to have maybe taken an organisation with the wheels falling off and put them on a better path. People who work there may think different but the 'vibe' at Qantas is one of poison and distrust.
Jetstar may have been a necessary evil but Qantas needs someone who believes in a premium product, not someone who only believes in destroying and thinking that the only way to run a business is to screw the very people who run it.
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Just a thought, is there any mechanism where Q employees can set up a vote of confidence/no confidence in the Q CEO and board? I know its not a binding thing but might just get the attention of the shareholders to know how the employees feel!
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Caught this one on another forum today, on a completely different topic but seemed appropriate and in context:
posted by user: Stuck on Zero
This egg has been deliberately scrambled, to make the return journey near impossible. The idea appears to be to take the company to "the brink", enabling it to hold a gun to its own head, screaming to the government to give it want it wants (relaxation of the sale act & off-shoring) or it pulls the trigger. In effect, the workforce is the hostage & the political vehicle to get to "Asia".
Watch the timing carefully to fit in with the political timeline and or the next stage of the financial crisis.
This whole thing has been engineered & scripted from the start, utilizing others to do the dirty work.
My observation, over a lifetime of observing management in companies, is that as a manager fails, because of poor policy decisions, the manager will ask for more power and control and will tighten down what they have. If you give that manager more control and things get worse he/she will ask for more control. What usually happens is that the backlash comes and everything gets worse and disaffection grows rampant in the ranks.
This egg has been deliberately scrambled, to make the return journey near impossible. The idea appears to be to take the company to "the brink", enabling it to hold a gun to its own head, screaming to the government to give it want it wants (relaxation of the sale act & off-shoring) or it pulls the trigger. In effect, the workforce is the hostage & the political vehicle to get to "Asia".
Watch the timing carefully to fit in with the political timeline and or the next stage of the financial crisis.
This whole thing has been engineered & scripted from the start, utilizing others to do the dirty work.
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The problem you have is that you are viewing Qantas as an airline. I am certain that AJ and the Board and to a certain extent the shareholders view it purely as a business / investment which despite a massive worldwide recession has remained profitable and is expecting a pre-tax profit this year of $550 million despite the fuel price / CHC and Japan disasters etc...
I was in Europe with one of the major legacy carriers there when the shareprice plummeted from over 5 pounds down to around 1.19 pounds whist going from a 500 million profit to a loss of around 1 billion. Pension 'black hole' of around 5 billion pounds. Cabin Crew were goaded into 25 days of strike action, they were grounded for 15 days due to the icelandic volcano etc..... Everyone from within the airline were out for blood due to the running down of such a strong brand, we spoke openly about how it was becoming an embarrassment to even tell people who you worked for and how you would not recommend the airline to anyone. We were certain the board would get rid of the CEO who presided over all of this and were constantly surprised when he continually received the backing of the board. Fact of the matter was though, that board members and invested were privy to the big picture plan that was centered around year on year 'cost savings' (sound familiar), the setting up of an 'offshore' premium airline (sound familiar), the transfer of work from mainline to a franchise partner despite a scope agreement (sound familiar). Oh and the CEO was also a small irish man who happens to be good friends with AJ and O'Leary and had a strong background in LCC. The airline was in such a mess even Qantas ran for the hills when there was talk of a merger.
The investors and the board don't give a 'sh*t' if we are not happy about the age of the aircraft we fly, they don't care if the aircraft are crewed by offshore workers, and they don't give a toss about us saying the brand is being damaged. They are obviously happy with AJ and what he is 'planning' on doing as I am sure he is saying the same as my old CEO 'we need to restructure this aging, overpaid and inflexible workforce and then we will be making profits in the billions. They obviously believe it and are behind the plan as evidenced by the boards continuing support for the CEO.
I don't like it, but having seen it all before, those of you who think some knight in shining amour is going to come along and oust current management and restore things to the glory days are indeed in 'la la' land.
I was in Europe with one of the major legacy carriers there when the shareprice plummeted from over 5 pounds down to around 1.19 pounds whist going from a 500 million profit to a loss of around 1 billion. Pension 'black hole' of around 5 billion pounds. Cabin Crew were goaded into 25 days of strike action, they were grounded for 15 days due to the icelandic volcano etc..... Everyone from within the airline were out for blood due to the running down of such a strong brand, we spoke openly about how it was becoming an embarrassment to even tell people who you worked for and how you would not recommend the airline to anyone. We were certain the board would get rid of the CEO who presided over all of this and were constantly surprised when he continually received the backing of the board. Fact of the matter was though, that board members and invested were privy to the big picture plan that was centered around year on year 'cost savings' (sound familiar), the setting up of an 'offshore' premium airline (sound familiar), the transfer of work from mainline to a franchise partner despite a scope agreement (sound familiar). Oh and the CEO was also a small irish man who happens to be good friends with AJ and O'Leary and had a strong background in LCC. The airline was in such a mess even Qantas ran for the hills when there was talk of a merger.
The investors and the board don't give a 'sh*t' if we are not happy about the age of the aircraft we fly, they don't care if the aircraft are crewed by offshore workers, and they don't give a toss about us saying the brand is being damaged. They are obviously happy with AJ and what he is 'planning' on doing as I am sure he is saying the same as my old CEO 'we need to restructure this aging, overpaid and inflexible workforce and then we will be making profits in the billions. They obviously believe it and are behind the plan as evidenced by the boards continuing support for the CEO.
I don't like it, but having seen it all before, those of you who think some knight in shining amour is going to come along and oust current management and restore things to the glory days are indeed in 'la la' land.
Sadly have to agree with 'Sunny',it's un-savable ...........the damage has been done
Some CEO's are there to do a job, they have no heart, it's a machine that pumps money around their veins, nothing else.
'ozbiggles' I hope yr right there.
It's a new world out there now Aviation, there's little thrill in it anymore.An industry that's torn apart within. No longer do small boys lean against the airport fences with eyes as big as saucers watching pilots/planes coming & going with heads full of dreams, the CEO's have surgically removed that dream with great monetary precision!
People just fly now as a means to get from A to B at the cheapest rate possible, the latter has caused the rot, the current cheap fares are unsustainable unless we work for peanuts. We pilots have no clout,the last time such a pilot held hammer was used we got smashed!All we can do now is battle at the local level & try to make the best of an ugly situation.
I feel for the QF employees who once where proud to say I work for QF, am sure some are now keeping quiet about that.
Still we live also in interesting times, perhaps there is a God after all & we may see salvation..........................damn it, just missed that pink fairy down at the bottom of my garden again !
Wmk2
Some CEO's are there to do a job, they have no heart, it's a machine that pumps money around their veins, nothing else.'ozbiggles' I hope yr right there.
It's a new world out there now Aviation, there's little thrill in it anymore.An industry that's torn apart within. No longer do small boys lean against the airport fences with eyes as big as saucers watching pilots/planes coming & going with heads full of dreams, the CEO's have surgically removed that dream with great monetary precision!
People just fly now as a means to get from A to B at the cheapest rate possible, the latter has caused the rot, the current cheap fares are unsustainable unless we work for peanuts. We pilots have no clout,the last time such a pilot held hammer was used we got smashed!
All we can do now is battle at the local level & try to make the best of an ugly situation.I feel for the QF employees who once where proud to say I work for QF, am sure some are now keeping quiet about that.
Still we live also in interesting times, perhaps there is a God after all & we may see salvation..........................damn it, just missed that pink fairy down at the bottom of my garden again !
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here is a thought
get AIPA,Engineers union, Cabin crew SH/LH union and ASU to form a joint committee and continiously start doing press conferences pointing out:
no trust in the board or senior managment
ask for their resignation daily
publish facts about remunereation about the most expensive airline management
work out the losses by not having 777's over the last 3-5 years
start publishing leaked details of subsides from mainline
please add to the list
no trust in the board or senior managment
ask for their resignation daily
publish facts about remunereation about the most expensive airline management
work out the losses by not having 777's over the last 3-5 years
start publishing leaked details of subsides from mainline
please add to the list
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To the whingers - harden up you pathetic losers. Seriously, all is most definitely not lost. Not to say it's rosy either but sitting around crying like schoolgirls in a circle of self pity after getting dumped is just plain sad.
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Agree with Sunfish. There's no money left in the coffers for discretionary spending. The 380's are a noose around QF's neck. No company can survive for long when there's more money going out than coming in.
Wally Mk2:
I disagree slightly. This seems to be the misguided opinion of many of the senior QF managers, motivated by the asinine board decision of granting year end bonuses that sacrificed long term sustainability for short term cost cutting. Dixon took full advantage of the situation.
Value is what the customer looks for. QF failed to identify what value meant for its passengers. Value for management was providing the product at the cheapest possible price; aka Jetstar. The iconic Australian branding and safety record of Qantas didn't stand up to reality as maintenance and other responsibilities were shifted offshore and the reality of non-functional IFE systems, and delayed flights reinforced an impression that standards had slipped in a big way.
It's not as though QF management was not informed. It just chose not to listen.
Wally Mk2:
People just fly now as a means to get from A to B at the cheapest rate possible, the latter has caused the rot, the current cheap fares are unsustainable unless we work for peanuts.
Value is what the customer looks for. QF failed to identify what value meant for its passengers. Value for management was providing the product at the cheapest possible price; aka Jetstar. The iconic Australian branding and safety record of Qantas didn't stand up to reality as maintenance and other responsibilities were shifted offshore and the reality of non-functional IFE systems, and delayed flights reinforced an impression that standards had slipped in a big way.
It's not as though QF management was not informed. It just chose not to listen.
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All is not lost provided that Joyce,BB and most of the Board go and that is not an easy thing to do unless the pressure becomes so great that shareholders (ala a few major fund managers) decide enough is enough. They have shown NO sign of that stage being reached yet but they MUST be getting nervous with an all or nothing strategy and NOW the likes of Buchanan confronting a formal senate report in the way that he is. Every time these guys open their mouths they provide free ammunition for their own demise so you HAVE to deal with it.
There are some on the Board who must be getting very uncomfortable with the strategy and the impact these whole events will have on future board appointments, so divide and conquer. Not sure how the good general would be feeling with such a strong record that must now surely be at risk for governance issues that will haunt all of them.
Suspect they already have ALP on side so you MUST keep the pressure up with the Senate report and not let the Rat out snooker you on that front.The pollies will change tack if they feel they may lose their seats, so with a hung parliament/poor ALP performance don't miss that opportunity.
Senator X is in a difficult position but that hasn't stopped him to this point, so use the friends that you have and help him keep a public profile. He is a good guy and cannot be compromised which makes him a bit of a wild card.
Finally despite widespread common suggestions on this site, the Pilot's message just isn't getting put across and every time I hear "the public is not interested" I nearly choke because frankly that is a complete cop out and the easy way to do nothing. If you don't act then do not expect all those who are willing to back you to keep flogging a dead or limp horse for you.
Make no mistake this is a fight and others have set the rules of engagement and you have to play by those rules to have even a remote chance of getting anywhere.
There are some on the Board who must be getting very uncomfortable with the strategy and the impact these whole events will have on future board appointments, so divide and conquer. Not sure how the good general would be feeling with such a strong record that must now surely be at risk for governance issues that will haunt all of them.
Suspect they already have ALP on side so you MUST keep the pressure up with the Senate report and not let the Rat out snooker you on that front.The pollies will change tack if they feel they may lose their seats, so with a hung parliament/poor ALP performance don't miss that opportunity.
Senator X is in a difficult position but that hasn't stopped him to this point, so use the friends that you have and help him keep a public profile. He is a good guy and cannot be compromised which makes him a bit of a wild card.
Finally despite widespread common suggestions on this site, the Pilot's message just isn't getting put across and every time I hear "the public is not interested" I nearly choke because frankly that is a complete cop out and the easy way to do nothing. If you don't act then do not expect all those who are willing to back you to keep flogging a dead or limp horse for you.
Make no mistake this is a fight and others have set the rules of engagement and you have to play by those rules to have even a remote chance of getting anywhere.
I remembered that the CEO of HP was sacked a few years back Carly Fiorina forced out at HP - Feb. 10, 2005
but whilst searching that I found this article The cost of entrenchment: Why CEOs are rarely sacked - In2EastAfrica
doesn't mean that it cannot be done though.
I guess a search through all articles about the faied bid a few years back would show what journalists were actually anti Dixon and Jackson - perhaps taking what skybed said and invite those journalists into the 1 room with the leaders of those unions and selected people who are willing to speak and who knows???
I recall some time back Liam Bartlett from 60 Minutes wrote an article in a WA paper that certainly was not pro Qantas.
but whilst searching that I found this article The cost of entrenchment: Why CEOs are rarely sacked - In2EastAfrica
doesn't mean that it cannot be done though.
I guess a search through all articles about the faied bid a few years back would show what journalists were actually anti Dixon and Jackson - perhaps taking what skybed said and invite those journalists into the 1 room with the leaders of those unions and selected people who are willing to speak and who knows???
I recall some time back Liam Bartlett from 60 Minutes wrote an article in a WA paper that certainly was not pro Qantas.
Burrito:
Got it in one. The idea is for Qantas to be taken private and to just be a brand name for screwing passengers into an out of Australia - an extension of Sydney airport if you like. Service will be provided to "the brand" by lowest cost foreign operators.
The Government will do nothing, the fix is already in.
This egg has been deliberately scrambled, to make the return journey near impossible. The idea appears to be to take the company to "the brink", enabling it to hold a gun to its own head, screaming to the government to give it want it wants (relaxation of the sale act & off-shoring) or it pulls the trigger. In effect, the workforce is the hostage & the political vehicle to get to "Asia".
Got it in one. The idea is for Qantas to be taken private and to just be a brand name for screwing passengers into an out of Australia - an extension of Sydney airport if you like. Service will be provided to "the brand" by lowest cost foreign operators.
The Government will do nothing, the fix is already in.
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Well said Romulus. It is hard to say where the future of Q is heading ,but I doubt that any amount of bickering on here or to the media will make any difference.
As much as I don't like AJ and the cronies under him he and them are the people with the power to do as they please. After watching the press club the other day I thought his comment that J* saved jobs at Q was spot on whether you like it or not.
As much as I don't like AJ and the cronies under him he and them are the people with the power to do as they please. After watching the press club the other day I thought his comment that J* saved jobs at Q was spot on whether you like it or not.
Another example from another thread. (my bolding)
From NZ Herald.
An email from Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce to the airline's eight million frequent flyer customers, justifying Qantas' decision to ground many of its aircraft, implied that airlines like Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia were operating unsafely, Mr Fyfe said.
"What Alan omitted to mention was that it wasn't just Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia that had managed to adapt their operations to operate safely in clear air, but all airlines apart from Qantas and Jetstar had managed to achieve the vast majority of their operations.
"What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines' services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace."
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An email from Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce to the airline's eight million frequent flyer customers, justifying Qantas' decision to ground many of its aircraft, implied that airlines like Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia were operating unsafely, Mr Fyfe said.
"What Alan omitted to mention was that it wasn't just Air New Zealand and Virgin Australia that had managed to adapt their operations to operate safely in clear air, but all airlines apart from Qantas and Jetstar had managed to achieve the vast majority of their operations.
"What Alan also failed to mention was that Qantas was very happy to transfer thousands of its customers onto Air New Zealand and other airlines' services, which seems a strange thing to do for your customers if you have concerns about the safety of the airspace."
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You proffer good food for thought DEFCON.
However, it’s not what you look at that matters. It’s what you see.
The potential establishment of Qantasia and the offshoring of Australian jobs is dealt with in the Qantas Sale Act. Whether or not Qantasia ponentially offends this piece of legislation, would seem to depend on whether or not the Act applies to Qantas as a whole, or only to Qantas International?
Notwithstanding this and the powers of the Foreign Review Board, if Mainline employees want the ‘Qantas Train’ to run clockwise and not anti-clockwise, expect they are ultimately going to have to put their collective wallets where their hearts are and get implemented a strategy, which not only keeps the jobs in Australia, but also wins the backing of shareholders.
It is far from easy to do, but it can be done via a Qantas Employee Share Trust (QEST). Preferably with the support of the Qantas Board, but alternatively with the support of an aligned investment consortium if the Qantas Board chose not to listen to the collective view of employees potentially owning a substantial share of Qantas.
Similar arrangements have been extensively implemented in the US. Sometimes a substantial minority employee shareholding (>15%) is enough, but more often, it requires a majority employee shareholding (>50%) Either way, the widespread buy-in of just about all whose EBA’s are up for renegotiation is a prerequisite.
It would be a difficult manoeuvre, but do keep in mind, in 1999 Ansett Employees planned a staff buy-out of News Corp’s 50% share of Ansett Airlines. However, Air New Zealand trumped the staff bid using its pre-emptive rights, and the rest is history.
Hopefully history will not repeat itself.
However, it’s not what you look at that matters. It’s what you see.
The potential establishment of Qantasia and the offshoring of Australian jobs is dealt with in the Qantas Sale Act. Whether or not Qantasia ponentially offends this piece of legislation, would seem to depend on whether or not the Act applies to Qantas as a whole, or only to Qantas International?
Notwithstanding this and the powers of the Foreign Review Board, if Mainline employees want the ‘Qantas Train’ to run clockwise and not anti-clockwise, expect they are ultimately going to have to put their collective wallets where their hearts are and get implemented a strategy, which not only keeps the jobs in Australia, but also wins the backing of shareholders.
It is far from easy to do, but it can be done via a Qantas Employee Share Trust (QEST). Preferably with the support of the Qantas Board, but alternatively with the support of an aligned investment consortium if the Qantas Board chose not to listen to the collective view of employees potentially owning a substantial share of Qantas.
Similar arrangements have been extensively implemented in the US. Sometimes a substantial minority employee shareholding (>15%) is enough, but more often, it requires a majority employee shareholding (>50%) Either way, the widespread buy-in of just about all whose EBA’s are up for renegotiation is a prerequisite.
It would be a difficult manoeuvre, but do keep in mind, in 1999 Ansett Employees planned a staff buy-out of News Corp’s 50% share of Ansett Airlines. However, Air New Zealand trumped the staff bid using its pre-emptive rights, and the rest is history.
Hopefully history will not repeat itself.
Last edited by WoodenEye; 25th Jun 2011 at 08:59. Reason: Late Delivery
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I suppose the biggest problem is that at the moment the shareholders could vote to liquidate the entire airline and invest the money in an internet savings account and get a better return.
It's the whole risk vs return thing. The airline either needs to reduce the risk to meet the current return, or increase the return to meet the current risk.
It's the whole risk vs return thing. The airline either needs to reduce the risk to meet the current return, or increase the return to meet the current risk.
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Explain to me this then gents.
Capt and CSM on a flight just the other day, had their children looking to get to LA from Syd.
After 3 days, and every single flight full, they have cancelled their staff travel ticket and are now flying Air Canada 'eh' to get to LA.
Loads on my last 3 legs:
J: 20
Y:265
J: 18
Y:244
J: 22
Y: 277
My wife coudn't come away because the flights were full. Out of 15 staff travellers, only 5 flew.
How are they not making money?? It has to be creative accounting, therefore fraud, therefore, I hope someone is caught cooking the books because then, finally, the truth will be revealed.
So far, it's a fu%king joke, and it's starting to go too bloody far!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capt and CSM on a flight just the other day, had their children looking to get to LA from Syd.
After 3 days, and every single flight full, they have cancelled their staff travel ticket and are now flying Air Canada 'eh' to get to LA.
Loads on my last 3 legs:
J: 20
Y:265
J: 18
Y:244
J: 22
Y: 277
My wife coudn't come away because the flights were full. Out of 15 staff travellers, only 5 flew.
How are they not making money?? It has to be creative accounting, therefore fraud, therefore, I hope someone is caught cooking the books because then, finally, the truth will be revealed.
So far, it's a fu%king joke, and it's starting to go too bloody far!!!!!!!!!!!!!