Ash Cloud Damage
Today's Herald Sun page 9:
"A special "Eco Dimona" Aircraft flew into the ash cloud south of Australia, scientists on board confirmed the density of the ash was very low- a fraction of the 4mg per cubic metre that poses a threat to Jet engines. Confirming these safe levels earlier could have saved Airlines ( read QF JQ DJ ) tens of millions of dollars, associate Professor Jorg Hacker."
"A special "Eco Dimona" Aircraft flew into the ash cloud south of Australia, scientists on board confirmed the density of the ash was very low- a fraction of the 4mg per cubic metre that poses a threat to Jet engines. Confirming these safe levels earlier could have saved Airlines ( read QF JQ DJ ) tens of millions of dollars, associate Professor Jorg Hacker."
Last edited by nitpicker330; 23rd Jun 2011 at 10:10.
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He owns an aircraft therefore he is an expert...
Bit like the old Joe publics opinion of our job andd that we do nothing but press auto land... All experts...
Perhaps this on the resume might look favorably compared to a random passenger. But when you make a comment (whatever the context) to a journo, that you can fly through ash without consequence, it doesn't look to favorably anymore. Hope for his sake it was a misquote...
Bit like the old Joe publics opinion of our job andd that we do nothing but press auto land... All experts...
He served as Chairman of the board of the Civil Aviation Authority from 1990 to 1992; and Chairman of the board of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority from 1997 to 1999
After the article in the Australian today I think we can all say goodbye to RIDDICKS credibility on this site.
If you are going to start a rumour like this, you had better be willing to take the responsibility for it when it turns to ash.....
If you are going to start a rumour like this, you had better be willing to take the responsibility for it when it turns to ash.....
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Simple really....DS' comments possibly mean the current situation fits the "Affordable Safety" model....and therefore it was perfectly fine to fly in the Ash cloud...he probably would never do it himself.....
The claims I saw on the paper attributed to him stating that there is no data to show adverse safety in ash cloud is baffling.
This episode is interesting...a happy ending, but I can bet you these pilots would have something to say to Mr Smith...
YouTube - ‪KLM four engine failure from volcanic ash cloud‬‏
The claims I saw on the paper attributed to him stating that there is no data to show adverse safety in ash cloud is baffling.
This episode is interesting...a happy ending, but I can bet you these pilots would have something to say to Mr Smith...
YouTube - ‪KLM four engine failure from volcanic ash cloud‬‏
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Hi, first time poster so go easy on me! I was just wanting to ask your opinion - I'm due to fly out of Auckland on Monday on Royal Brunei (B777). I'm very nervous about flying at the best of times and the ash cloud has made me even more nervous. I don't know much about Royal Brunei and their safty / maintence procedures- is it likely that they will be inspecting their planes for ash damage at Auckland prior to departure? Given that they have just announced they are not going to fly this route from Oct, I'm guessing that they are lossing money - would they be scrimping on maintence costs? Should I be worried or do the have a reasonable reputation in regards to saftey? I assume they are flying under / around the ash cloud as per Air NZ as their flights are still operating?
Also, after doing some research I have also discovered that besides engine damage, the ash can also clog up the pitot tubes resulting in inacurate air data. If this happens, is there a redundancy system on a 777 like a GPS or something that can provide the piliots with flight data (speed, altitude, angle of attack)?
Finally, would the RB Pilots have completed training for this sort of event? Would they be under pressure to fly even if there are saftey concerns?
Thanks in advance for your help
Also, after doing some research I have also discovered that besides engine damage, the ash can also clog up the pitot tubes resulting in inacurate air data. If this happens, is there a redundancy system on a 777 like a GPS or something that can provide the piliots with flight data (speed, altitude, angle of attack)?
Finally, would the RB Pilots have completed training for this sort of event? Would they be under pressure to fly even if there are saftey concerns?
Thanks in advance for your help
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Bigbopper,
Royal Brunei are a good airline and you'll be well looked after. It's natural to be concerned about flying but they'll stay on the ground if there's even a slight risk involved. Take a good book, money for food and a spare change of jocks in your carry on luggage in case that happens and you'll be fine. They won't risk you, your fellow pax and a 777 if it looks dodgy. Other posters would be more qualified to comment, but AFAIK Brunei have always had a good maintenance program and well trained pilots (including Aussies, Kiwis and Poms). Australia and New Zealand have excellent safety standards, and a lot of the negative posts you see on here are because everyone working in the aviation industry wants to see that continue, not because there is a serious risk now.
For all the bitching you see on here, there are very few (if any) airlines flying into Australia or New Zealand that would take a serious punt on safety. It's not like Air Afrique are doing business here.
Have a good trip and stay relaxed.
Royal Brunei are a good airline and you'll be well looked after. It's natural to be concerned about flying but they'll stay on the ground if there's even a slight risk involved. Take a good book, money for food and a spare change of jocks in your carry on luggage in case that happens and you'll be fine. They won't risk you, your fellow pax and a 777 if it looks dodgy. Other posters would be more qualified to comment, but AFAIK Brunei have always had a good maintenance program and well trained pilots (including Aussies, Kiwis and Poms). Australia and New Zealand have excellent safety standards, and a lot of the negative posts you see on here are because everyone working in the aviation industry wants to see that continue, not because there is a serious risk now.
For all the bitching you see on here, there are very few (if any) airlines flying into Australia or New Zealand that would take a serious punt on safety. It's not like Air Afrique are doing business here.
Have a good trip and stay relaxed
. Last edited by Worrals in the wilds; 25th Jun 2011 at 12:16.
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Thanks Jack & Worrals, thats put my mind at ease (well a bit...). Just looking at the latest VAAC maps and it looks like another big cloud is comming our way but at a much lower altitude (FL050/FL200 - 5000 to 20000 ft I think) so no way anyone will be flying in that I would guess. The fact that the NZ Met service is forcasting the cloud does not exactly fill me with confidence as they could not forcast a piss up in a brewery!!
@bigbopper, actually when it comes to ash cloud forecasts they're pretty good. It's an international collaboration, with a type of 3d infra-red (from satellites) layering and computer modelling. A safety buffer is built in. A lot has been learned about this, fast, over the past decade or so.
Looks to me that the cloud on the Darwin VAAC site is likely to be far enough South that it's unlikely to affect your flight, anyway. You may notice (depending on where you are, and where the upper ash cloud is) that the flight levels off initially a bit lower than normal for a while, before continuing climb.
The NZ Met service gets it pretty right, most of the time, in regard to weather generally, in my experience. A few noticeable "misses", but the important stuff is usually good.
Looks to me that the cloud on the Darwin VAAC site is likely to be far enough South that it's unlikely to affect your flight, anyway. You may notice (depending on where you are, and where the upper ash cloud is) that the flight levels off initially a bit lower than normal for a while, before continuing climb.
The NZ Met service gets it pretty right, most of the time, in regard to weather generally, in my experience. A few noticeable "misses", but the important stuff is usually good.
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Thanks @Tarq57 - looks like all carriers are flying from tomorrow, even Qantas so I'm feeling much better about it all although I have foolishly looked at the forecast in Brunei and London and both are for thunder and lightning storms so I'm worried about that now - too much information is not good sometimes!
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Just wanted to report that the flight went ahead without incident, in fact it was perfect, no turbulence the whole way from Auckland to London - the seatbelt sign did not come on once. No sign of any ash cloud although I did see a lightning bolt a short distance from the plane as we flew out of Brunei...
I really got the impression that the pilots were trying to avoid turbulence which made for a very pleasent flight. It is a shame Royal Brunei have stopped this service from october as I would def fly with them again - the 777 was a very soomth ride...
I really got the impression that the pilots were trying to avoid turbulence which made for a very pleasent flight. It is a shame Royal Brunei have stopped this service from october as I would def fly with them again - the 777 was a very soomth ride...
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Glad you enjoyed a drama free trip. BrownEye are a good airline, it's a pity they couldn't make the numbers work. Nice guys sometimes finish last...
If you're a pax who enjoys reading and learning more about flying there is a great section on PPRuNe for passengers, aka SLF (self loading freight
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Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) - PPRuNe Forums
If you're a pax who enjoys reading and learning more about flying there is a great section on PPRuNe for passengers, aka SLF (self loading freight
). Passengers & SLF (Self Loading Freight) - PPRuNe Forums
