Another QF air return
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
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@turtlehead
Confirmed. Body landing gear tilt actuator sheared. Rather unusual i'd say.....
Anyone got any idea what failed?
Have been informed one of the main body gear tilt actuators failed...as in sheared off the oleo. Good to know QF don't overhaul their gears anymore......interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember the 743 in Rome a few years ago???????????????Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
Have been informed one of the main body gear tilt actuators failed...as in sheared off the oleo. Good to know QF don't overhaul their gears anymore......interesting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember the 743 in Rome a few years ago???????????????Ouch!!!!!!!!!!
Join Date: Jan 2004
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Join Date: Jan 2008
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Another QF air return
Hey Puff,
Answers to your questions....
1--- Not OJC.
2--- Yep, absolute FRENZY around main gears... 3 old QF farts changing wheels... No rumours here buddy.
Answers to your questions....
1--- Not OJC.
2--- Yep, absolute FRENZY around main gears... 3 old QF farts changing wheels... No rumours here buddy.
Hccmclown:
You are displaying your ignorance yet again and obviously not a pilot or an engineer.
1. The RR Spey engines in an F28 at the time have air starters like most jets. They need compressed air which is supplied by the APU, GPU or a rather large ground based large air tank to start. Once one engine is started, it can provide bleed air to start the other one.
2. At the outstations in far Northern Western Australia there was no GPU or GSE. If both engines are shut down as is the usual practice, then you are reliant on the APU for starting, and if that won't start you are stuffed.
3. The APU's were built by Garrett Airesearch as it was then called. The provider of the biggest heap of shyte in the aviation industry and I'm paraphrasing old Jim Blue who told us that at a Boeing conference in Seattle.
The particular problem with this heap of crap of an APU involved the starter - an electric motor that spun the thing up to about 10% N1 (say 10,000 rpm) for ignition. The starter was then supposed to disengage via the aforesaid sprag clutch so that the motor didn't spin up to 100% N1 along with the APU turbine.
...And the things often didn't disengage - which meant the armature "grew until it hit the case and failed...... and the next time the pilot shut down and tried to restart via the APU.....she no start. We stuck in Karratha until an engineer arrives with a new starter.
Sorry for being verbose, but you did ask. After some sixty starter failures and associated delays, the F28 pilots decided to keep the Port engine running at idle at outstations rather than risk another failure and delay. Airesearch took forever to redesign the starter clutch.
As I said, failure of the gear to retract is only a minor issue after you are safely back on the ground with the gear pinned.
Why on earth would a pilot leave an engine running due to an APU starter issue "in case they couldn't get a start"? This statement does not make sense at all.
And anyone in the industry would refer to the starter as a Garrett, not an Airresearch.
And anyone in the industry would refer to the starter as a Garrett, not an Airresearch.
1. The RR Spey engines in an F28 at the time have air starters like most jets. They need compressed air which is supplied by the APU, GPU or a rather large ground based large air tank to start. Once one engine is started, it can provide bleed air to start the other one.
2. At the outstations in far Northern Western Australia there was no GPU or GSE. If both engines are shut down as is the usual practice, then you are reliant on the APU for starting, and if that won't start you are stuffed.
3. The APU's were built by Garrett Airesearch as it was then called. The provider of the biggest heap of shyte in the aviation industry and I'm paraphrasing old Jim Blue who told us that at a Boeing conference in Seattle.
The particular problem with this heap of crap of an APU involved the starter - an electric motor that spun the thing up to about 10% N1 (say 10,000 rpm) for ignition. The starter was then supposed to disengage via the aforesaid sprag clutch so that the motor didn't spin up to 100% N1 along with the APU turbine.
...And the things often didn't disengage - which meant the armature "grew until it hit the case and failed...... and the next time the pilot shut down and tried to restart via the APU.....she no start. We stuck in Karratha until an engineer arrives with a new starter.
Sorry for being verbose, but you did ask. After some sixty starter failures and associated delays, the F28 pilots decided to keep the Port engine running at idle at outstations rather than risk another failure and delay. Airesearch took forever to redesign the starter clutch.
As I said, failure of the gear to retract is only a minor issue after you are safely back on the ground with the gear pinned.
Last edited by Sunfish; 7th Jun 2011 at 01:01.
Mate, I just got told what the problem was and went and investigated it. Exctly why the aircraft was operated the way it was I don't know, but this was a long time ago
Read a few of my posts and you might find out. I worked for AN when it was a real airline and HdH when it built real aircraft
1. How was electrical power supplied to the aircraft during a normal transit with the APU not being run till engine start is required, bearing in mind your claim that no GSE was available?
It's not a fukcing "claim" this is Far North Western Australia in the early 1980's. All I know is that we were spending a fortune on unscheduled maintenance and ALan Grey was tearing his hair out.
2. At what stage of operation does the pilot start the APU?
Not being an F28 driver I wouldn't know. It may be useable in the air ..or not. All i know is that when they went to start it it wouldn't start, end of story.
3. Do you think that it is normal for the first engine to be started from the APU, then the second engine started from the first engine?
It may not be normal, but it can be done on an F28.
4. Why are you using the term N1 when referring to APU's?
Make it N2 or N3 or whatever, I could care less
5. What indication of "APU N1" is there on the F28?
None as far as i know, just a panel with a start sequence switch and warning lights I expect. The poor old starter knew though when the engine caught and tried to wind it up to 100,000+ rpm.
6. What is a GPU and what does it supply to an aircraft?
The ground power unit I was talking about was actually a trailer mounted APU for starting, not a generator unit.
7. At what stage of APU start is ignition introduced, and how is it introduced?
search me, I would assume at about 10% of rated speed. I suppose I could google it like you must have.
And the "rather large ground based large air tank" are called ground start bottles.
Thank you for the terminology, I couldn't remember.
I will ask you for the third time...What do you do in the aviation industry?
It's not a fukcing "claim" this is Far North Western Australia in the early 1980's. All I know is that we were spending a fortune on unscheduled maintenance and ALan Grey was tearing his hair out.
2. At what stage of operation does the pilot start the APU?
Not being an F28 driver I wouldn't know. It may be useable in the air ..or not. All i know is that when they went to start it it wouldn't start, end of story.
3. Do you think that it is normal for the first engine to be started from the APU, then the second engine started from the first engine?
It may not be normal, but it can be done on an F28.
4. Why are you using the term N1 when referring to APU's?
Make it N2 or N3 or whatever, I could care less
5. What indication of "APU N1" is there on the F28?
None as far as i know, just a panel with a start sequence switch and warning lights I expect. The poor old starter knew though when the engine caught and tried to wind it up to 100,000+ rpm.
6. What is a GPU and what does it supply to an aircraft?
The ground power unit I was talking about was actually a trailer mounted APU for starting, not a generator unit.
7. At what stage of APU start is ignition introduced, and how is it introduced?
search me, I would assume at about 10% of rated speed. I suppose I could google it like you must have.
And the "rather large ground based large air tank" are called ground start bottles.
Thank you for the terminology, I couldn't remember.
I will ask you for the third time...What do you do in the aviation industry?
The particular problem with this heap of crap of an APU involved the starter - an electric motor that spun the thing up to about 10% N1 (say 10,000 rpm) for ignition. The starter was then supposed to disengage via the aforesaid sprag clutch so that the motor didn't spin up to 100% N1 along with the APU turbine.
It's a fixed shaft turbine, N1 refers to RPM of a free power turbine.
A Garrett has an electric starter that motors the engine until ignition and fuel flow, then assists combustion until self sustaining RPM. Generally After reaching 60% the engine will be self sustaining.
On a turboprop engine the starter will now become a generator.
I find it hard to accept the flight crew would leave the port engine (left) running when pax would be disembarking and embarking via the forward port exit.
Do you mean the starboard engine?
An APU is generally started prior to circuit to supply the packs with bleed air to achieve maximum power during a go around.
At the latest it is started vacating the runway.
The only way I can understand what you are saying is if the aeroplane was overnighting and they could not get the APU lit in the morning.
You are right, I meant the starboard engine and thank you for your detailed description.
You would have to talk to an Ansett F28 pilot about why things were done this way, but they did.
The problem was that the APU starter would fail at the end of the start sequence, leaving you with a running APU with no indication of starter quill shaft failure. The only indication was a failure to start at the next port. I assume the crew tried to start it and if it failed, would leave one engine idling during turn around.
My involvement was to be told by Bondy, Ron Jackson or Bushy, I forget which, to find out what the heck was going on and if we had a real problem, find out what needed to be done to fix it and report back.
You would have to talk to an Ansett F28 pilot about why things were done this way, but they did.
The problem was that the APU starter would fail at the end of the start sequence, leaving you with a running APU with no indication of starter quill shaft failure. The only indication was a failure to start at the next port. I assume the crew tried to start it and if it failed, would leave one engine idling during turn around.
My involvement was to be told by Bondy, Ron Jackson or Bushy, I forget which, to find out what the heck was going on and if we had a real problem, find out what needed to be done to fix it and report back.
Originally Posted by Popgun
What is Cafe Sua Da?????
