200 Jetstar Asia Cabin Crew Stood Down
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth, AUS
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh and I found this in another section of the CAO 20.11 outside of the appendix IV. If you haven't realised you sort of pissed me off. 
13.3 Training
e) location and use of first aid equipment.
So at the end of the day you can see how it is certainly needed to be a cabin crew member in Australia.
13.3 Training
e) location and use of first aid equipment.
So at the end of the day you can see how it is certainly needed to be a cabin crew member in Australia.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 767
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MPPGF.
Let's just let the Australian public know that they are flying with a Singapore airline whose cabin crew do not have a recognized first aid qualification and let's see the reaction.
Jetstar have a duty of care to the passengers and their crew members to ensure that this 'workplace' has first aiders in it at all times. It is even an employment pre-requisite.
This 'if the regs don't say it, it is not required attitude' is the crux of the problem.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
Let's just let the Australian public know that they are flying with a Singapore airline whose cabin crew do not have a recognized first aid qualification and let's see the reaction.
Jetstar have a duty of care to the passengers and their crew members to ensure that this 'workplace' has first aiders in it at all times. It is even an employment pre-requisite.
This 'if the regs don't say it, it is not required attitude' is the crux of the problem.
More to Follow
The Kelpie
I think it would be true to say the general public has a very short memory especially when money is involved.
Jetstar Asia could be culpable and crash an aircraft killing 200 people and still fill the plane next week. The public wants to believe the regulator/government would not allow an operator to fly if they were unsafe. Deferral of responsibility (read lazy) is a well understood human trait, indeed it’s linked to a personality type which needs to use a LCC, along the lines of the investor in a pyramid scheme who want something for nothing and when it goes wrong they don’t take responsibility for their choice as the system/government should have protected them.
From the aviation Minister down we have a failed system, a failed Department of Aviation, I doubt we are much better than a third world country once all the window-dressing is taken away. Unless the Senate Inquiry comes up with some significant changes then forget it.
Jetstar Asia could be culpable and crash an aircraft killing 200 people and still fill the plane next week. The public wants to believe the regulator/government would not allow an operator to fly if they were unsafe. Deferral of responsibility (read lazy) is a well understood human trait, indeed it’s linked to a personality type which needs to use a LCC, along the lines of the investor in a pyramid scheme who want something for nothing and when it goes wrong they don’t take responsibility for their choice as the system/government should have protected them.
From the aviation Minister down we have a failed system, a failed Department of Aviation, I doubt we are much better than a third world country once all the window-dressing is taken away. Unless the Senate Inquiry comes up with some significant changes then forget it.
What about the 'Australian' travelling public who fly with EK,CX,CA,EVA,SQ out of Australia with cabin crew who all have the same qualification. Are they jeopardising their safety?
The crux of the problem is not what they don't have, it's what their competitors are doing to keep them competitive and I don't think it's a first aid course.
Ever heard of Medlink and the drugs that these asian carriers have onboard that can be administered by someone other than a first aider(Nurse,Doctor etc).
The crux of the problem is not what they don't have, it's what their competitors are doing to keep them competitive and I don't think it's a first aid course.
Ever heard of Medlink and the drugs that these asian carriers have onboard that can be administered by someone other than a first aider(Nurse,Doctor etc).
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone is zero
Posts: 731
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KABOY, this I suspect this rumour stems for the "Darwin incident" that made its way to the Senate inquiry: (my bold)
SMH
This issue appears to be that despite equipment being on board, none of the crew were capable or willing to using it. Are EK,CX,CA,EVA,SQ crew trained and capable of using the equipment?
Nurse faced paying extra fare after trying to save passenger's life
Matt O'Sullivan
February 26, 2011
THE head of Jetstar, Bruce Buchanan, has conceded that the budget airline was ''not on our best form'' when it tried to charge a nurse for an extra fare after she had attempted to save the life of a fellow passenger.
Details of the midair incident on the Jetstar flight from Singapore to Adelaide on November 6 emerged yesterday when Mr Buchanan and the chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, appeared at a Senate inquiry in Canberra into aviation safety and pilot training.
Passengers on JQ62 noticed that an elderly man had spent an ''inordinate amount of time'' in the toilet, the independent senator Nick Xenophon told the inquiry. But one of the passengers, who was a nurse, had trouble making a flight attendant aware of the severity of the situation because of communication difficulties.
When the toilet door was finally opened, the man was found slumped over after he had suffered a heart attack.
Senator Xenophon said the attendant did not know how to perform CPR, so the nurse tried to revive the man. The aircraft was diverted to Darwin, but the 86-year-old man was pronounced dead upon arrival.
The nurse had to stay overnight at Royal Darwin Hospital because capillaries in her face broke from the amount of effort she had put into trying to save the passenger's life. Senator Xenophon said the nurse was not happy when Jetstar later tried to charge her for an additional fare.
Mr Buchanan said all of Jetstar's cabin crew did CPR training and had refresher courses every two years. But he said it was standard practice for crews to ask whether any medically-trained passengers were on board aircraft when emergencies occurred because doctors and nurses were better placed to handle such situations.
Referring to the incident, Mr Buchanan told the inquiry: ''I think we were not on our best form the next day when she was disrupted out of Darwin.''
A Jetstar training captain, Geoff Klouth, had raised concerns at an earlier hearing that some of the airline's cabin crew were not properly trained for emergencies.
The inquiry heard that Jetstar had reduced the amount of safety training from 25 hours to 18 ''some time ago''. Mr Buchanan said this was because crew served on specific aircraft, and if they were working on narrow-body planes there was no need for the training required on larger aircraft.
Mr Joyce told the inquiry safety was Qantas's top priority, and denied that standards had been diminished due to cost cutting. He rejected ''the scaremongering and misinformation that has been put about'' regarding practices at the airline. ''Safety is never compromised [at Qantas],'' he said.
Matt O'Sullivan
February 26, 2011
THE head of Jetstar, Bruce Buchanan, has conceded that the budget airline was ''not on our best form'' when it tried to charge a nurse for an extra fare after she had attempted to save the life of a fellow passenger.
Details of the midair incident on the Jetstar flight from Singapore to Adelaide on November 6 emerged yesterday when Mr Buchanan and the chief executive of Qantas, Alan Joyce, appeared at a Senate inquiry in Canberra into aviation safety and pilot training.
Passengers on JQ62 noticed that an elderly man had spent an ''inordinate amount of time'' in the toilet, the independent senator Nick Xenophon told the inquiry. But one of the passengers, who was a nurse, had trouble making a flight attendant aware of the severity of the situation because of communication difficulties.
When the toilet door was finally opened, the man was found slumped over after he had suffered a heart attack.
Senator Xenophon said the attendant did not know how to perform CPR, so the nurse tried to revive the man. The aircraft was diverted to Darwin, but the 86-year-old man was pronounced dead upon arrival.
The nurse had to stay overnight at Royal Darwin Hospital because capillaries in her face broke from the amount of effort she had put into trying to save the passenger's life. Senator Xenophon said the nurse was not happy when Jetstar later tried to charge her for an additional fare.
Mr Buchanan said all of Jetstar's cabin crew did CPR training and had refresher courses every two years. But he said it was standard practice for crews to ask whether any medically-trained passengers were on board aircraft when emergencies occurred because doctors and nurses were better placed to handle such situations.
Referring to the incident, Mr Buchanan told the inquiry: ''I think we were not on our best form the next day when she was disrupted out of Darwin.''
A Jetstar training captain, Geoff Klouth, had raised concerns at an earlier hearing that some of the airline's cabin crew were not properly trained for emergencies.
The inquiry heard that Jetstar had reduced the amount of safety training from 25 hours to 18 ''some time ago''. Mr Buchanan said this was because crew served on specific aircraft, and if they were working on narrow-body planes there was no need for the training required on larger aircraft.
Mr Joyce told the inquiry safety was Qantas's top priority, and denied that standards had been diminished due to cost cutting. He rejected ''the scaremongering and misinformation that has been put about'' regarding practices at the airline. ''Safety is never compromised [at Qantas],'' he said.
This issue appears to be that despite equipment being on board, none of the crew were capable or willing to using it. Are EK,CX,CA,EVA,SQ crew trained and capable of using the equipment?
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth, AUS
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KABOY you would be pleased to know V Australia B777 carry Medlink and also a MFAK (Medical First Aid Kit) which has tonnes of drugs for qualified medical practitioners to administer.
Also all Virgin Australia aircraft are having MFAKs currently loaded onto them.
Defibs are also extremely important tools and these are on all B738s, B777s of course and soon all other aircraft, even the E190s.
I have had tonnes and tonnes of medical emergencies and I must say the training we receive to ensure we are prepared is second to none. Last week had a flight with a new crew member where it was her 2nd flight without a buddy and it was quite serious and she was amazing, especially when she was the only one able to attend to the passenger as the carts were blocking the rest of us till we were able to quickly move them.
Even some colleagues I work with who are ex Jetstar International tell me what a massive difference there is between Australian and overseas crew. But what do you expect when the training has been cut to the bones.
With my airline I did 6 weeks and now the latest crew are doing 8 weeks. They certainly are making sure they produce crew that are prepared for anything.
Also all Virgin Australia aircraft are having MFAKs currently loaded onto them.
Defibs are also extremely important tools and these are on all B738s, B777s of course and soon all other aircraft, even the E190s.
I have had tonnes and tonnes of medical emergencies and I must say the training we receive to ensure we are prepared is second to none. Last week had a flight with a new crew member where it was her 2nd flight without a buddy and it was quite serious and she was amazing, especially when she was the only one able to attend to the passenger as the carts were blocking the rest of us till we were able to quickly move them.
Even some colleagues I work with who are ex Jetstar International tell me what a massive difference there is between Australian and overseas crew. But what do you expect when the training has been cut to the bones.
With my airline I did 6 weeks and now the latest crew are doing 8 weeks. They certainly are making sure they produce crew that are prepared for anything.
Moderator
"Jetstar Asia is a Singapore based airline flying V registered aircraft and does not need to comply with any Australian regulations. "
For the issue of an FAAOC, to what extent must a foreign operator be compliant with Australian aviation legislation to operate into and out of Australia?
I would have thought crew training, including First Air and CPR would be as basic as requiring tech crew to hold valid licenses?
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 92
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KELPIE
I think you are getting your airlines a little mixed up.
Jetstar is an Australian airline flying VH registered aircraft with some Singapore and Thai based crew working for them and they do not ever operate on the Singaporean registered aircraft.
Jetstar Asia is a Singapore based airline flying 9V registered aircraft with their own Singapore based cabin crew that do not ever operate on the Australian registered aircraft.
So really the question is, Which airlines cabin crew are you talking about ?
I think you are getting your airlines a little mixed up.
Jetstar is an Australian airline flying VH registered aircraft with some Singapore and Thai based crew working for them and they do not ever operate on the Singaporean registered aircraft.
Jetstar Asia is a Singapore based airline flying 9V registered aircraft with their own Singapore based cabin crew that do not ever operate on the Australian registered aircraft.
It is a requirement for all Australia crew to hold this certificate when they commence flying. I am aware of many flights leaving Australia with only Singapore crew, which means that no one on board was trained for any medical emergency.
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth, AUS
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So really the question is, Which airlines cabin crew are you talking about ?
This was back when JQ were breaching immigration law with their crew staying too long in the country as foreign crew who would operate many domestic services and all sorts that ended up happening (which has slightly been changed and also some of it came out during the sessions at the Senate hearings).
Now the PER/SIN/PER Jetstar route is a 3K service. Would need to check if the aircraft still is VH. I'm not at international at midnight when that service does its turnaround.
I know JQ tow their aircraft all around the place between international and domestic (which even causes fights between Qantas and Skystar at times with QF doing the ground handling for domestic and Skystar doing international).
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth, AUS
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think it was Sunday around one- ish, heard callsign "jetstar asia 702" on a BNE ATC (southern) sector - whats this about?
But then that would be weird that they were on BNE centre? :|
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Perth, AUS
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well if it was with BNE centre could have even been a SIN/PER or PER/SIN flight.
After Jakarta centre they go to BNE before they transfer over to MEL later on in the flight.
After Jakarta centre they go to BNE before they transfer over to MEL later on in the flight.
