Good signs for T's & C's here?
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Good signs for T's & C's here?
Good news for this region, with most (if not all) majors throughout Asia, the Pacific and USA & EU interviewing & taking on new recruits!
I've combed through many Job sites this last 6 months and the signs are good, with the tempo rising, from Europe (mainly Eastern), USA and Asia/Pacific... so the M.E. isn't the only option but continues to employ also (orh der!).
Global Freighters are employing (or have already) and that's generally the first indicator of movement.
All this employment elsewhere, will draw away many more experienced crew from here, as it has already, in search of respect and decent T's & C's.
If management don't get the picture, their days are numbered, as Cadetships can't and won't fill the gap, it just can't (look at both the Boeing & Airbus forecasts for this region!) so they must hold onto and respect the experienced crew they are privileged to currently have working with them.
I've combed through many Job sites this last 6 months and the signs are good, with the tempo rising, from Europe (mainly Eastern), USA and Asia/Pacific... so the M.E. isn't the only option but continues to employ also (orh der!).
Global Freighters are employing (or have already) and that's generally the first indicator of movement.
All this employment elsewhere, will draw away many more experienced crew from here, as it has already, in search of respect and decent T's & C's.
If management don't get the picture, their days are numbered, as Cadetships can't and won't fill the gap, it just can't (look at both the Boeing & Airbus forecasts for this region!) so they must hold onto and respect the experienced crew they are privileged to currently have working with them.
Sadly Chocks' the logic you are advocating is completely alien to most airline mangements, especially the local regionals,
REX, at least officially, have sent a clear message that they will never compete for experienced pilots. It may be pre EBA shenanigans, but according to media they are planning to reduce their services by up to 30% ahead of the expected exodus!
Time will tell, but if history is anything to go by, they would rather disrupt the schedule, inconvenience the travelling public, and ultimately let business opportunities go by the wayside. Doesn't make sense of course, but these blokes are so pathologically opposed to anything resembleing retention of what have now become irreplaceble assets, they would rather stunt the company before going down that path!
REX, at least officially, have sent a clear message that they will never compete for experienced pilots. It may be pre EBA shenanigans, but according to media they are planning to reduce their services by up to 30% ahead of the expected exodus!
Time will tell, but if history is anything to go by, they would rather disrupt the schedule, inconvenience the travelling public, and ultimately let business opportunities go by the wayside. Doesn't make sense of course, but these blokes are so pathologically opposed to anything resembleing retention of what have now become irreplaceble assets, they would rather stunt the company before going down that path!
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Thanks Krusty. Sadly common sense is no longer common!Hopefully shareholders oust many of these shonks in like-minded airlines.
Yes, I saw the Rex speech and media release, turning their back on GA experience, at the recent Training Conference in the USA. Poor form, to whimper back to their previous low level excuses, from when Rex had huge attrition rates. (6 months to command now? Never heard of, before!)
I liken it to Mundeen saying to Wood, pre-boxing match, "Look Woody, it's gonna be a tough one mate, alotta pain an'I may have to change a few moves or learn some, throughout the match, but I can't be arsed, so I'm gonna give up & lie down on the mat"
They are going to get one huge shock- 30% is no where near the mark!
I'm a big believer in market forces ('cause I've been slaved to them for years!) and sense that they will prevail and many current managements will be found wanting AND shown up big time by overseas carriers, who continue to do the opposite and offer better. Heck, many have already "upped" there contract terms (Garuda/Korean/OK etc etc).
Bloody good question Chimbu'. But who knows what sort of twisted logic these guys adhere to?
REX have contract obligations to the Cadets under training (unless there's something in the fine print), so if they go ahead with the stated 30% reduction, there will have to be a surplus of F/O's!
As I said, could be pre EBA rhetoric. Nothing would surprise me with this lot.
REX have contract obligations to the Cadets under training (unless there's something in the fine print), so if they go ahead with the stated 30% reduction, there will have to be a surplus of F/O's!
As I said, could be pre EBA rhetoric. Nothing would surprise me with this lot.
Chocks
I wish it were true. There's always something. Most of us have seen it all.
89
Gulf 1
Asian economic Crisis
Gulf 2
SARS
9/11
Afghanistan
Oil shock
GFC
etc...etc....it never ends......
Whenever we seem to be just climbing out of the hole, something else happens which drops us down again. Not to be defeatest though, our EBA is coming up and we'll fight for improvements. I just wonder what excuse we'll get from the new guy this time.
I wish it were true. There's always something. Most of us have seen it all.
89
Gulf 1
Asian economic Crisis
Gulf 2
SARS
9/11
Afghanistan
Oil shock
GFC
etc...etc....it never ends......
Whenever we seem to be just climbing out of the hole, something else happens which drops us down again. Not to be defeatest though, our EBA is coming up and we'll fight for improvements. I just wonder what excuse we'll get from the new guy this time.
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Chocks I like your optimism, its refreshing. However the last time there was a lot of recruiting (2005-2008) conditions didn't move one inch. The only thing that moved was the minimum requirement bar.
In this country, experience does not count for one iota. Some even debate that it will become an obstacle to gaining employment as it is a precursor for employee expected conditions and EBA difficulties.
The Senate Inquiry will give experienced pilots of this country the answer to this question:
In terms of conditions, is Australia the "General Aviation" of Asia? (I.e the place to gain experience and then leave)
In this country, experience does not count for one iota. Some even debate that it will become an obstacle to gaining employment as it is a precursor for employee expected conditions and EBA difficulties.
The Senate Inquiry will give experienced pilots of this country the answer to this question:
In terms of conditions, is Australia the "General Aviation" of Asia? (I.e the place to gain experience and then leave)
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When the flow the debt bondage pilots ceases, T&C will reverse course.
For that to occur, it is going to require many of these serfs to become bankrupts. This will be years in the future, once the first of them has paid off their training, and is immediately discarded, in favour of the latest crop of seat warmers on a lessor contract. This, of course benefits the short term executive bonus cycle.
We haven't even talked about fuel prices, which depending upon what Mr Bernake has to say on Wednesday evening may go and stay significantly higher for an extended period of time.
For that to occur, it is going to require many of these serfs to become bankrupts. This will be years in the future, once the first of them has paid off their training, and is immediately discarded, in favour of the latest crop of seat warmers on a lessor contract. This, of course benefits the short term executive bonus cycle.
We haven't even talked about fuel prices, which depending upon what Mr Bernake has to say on Wednesday evening may go and stay significantly higher for an extended period of time.
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Bingo, Mr Hat!
You've got it right there:
Sad thing is, the departures have been steadily increasing for some time, pressured from below by the Shiny Jet Syndrome, poor workforce engagement & treatment... and from the rising cost of living bought to you by the "Wicked Witch of Werribee" (Hopefully the swing against her mob, in the State elections will amount to better).
Many are on the hunt for better, in order to look after their families and are tired of reading of the never ending Management bonuses and personal Share allotments, along with the associated excuses for lowering conditions.
Airlines need us even more now, as parked airframes are just abit expensive, shareholders aren't impressed; cadets need to be trained by experienced pilots and just can't jump into the left seat and many new pilots coming through (a dwindling number!) have been found to have bogus logbooks (just search these forums!).
It's about time they realised it's a symbiotic relationship and "their" supply tap is about to run dry... there isn't an endless supply of wannabee's tripping over each other for the "Shiny Jet"... Gen Y et all see it's no longer a financially rewarding or highly respected profession. Look after who you have, may I suggest.
You've got it right there:
In terms of conditions, is Australia the "General Aviation" of Asia? (I.e the place to gain experience and then leave)
Sad thing is, the departures have been steadily increasing for some time, pressured from below by the Shiny Jet Syndrome, poor workforce engagement & treatment... and from the rising cost of living bought to you by the "Wicked Witch of Werribee" (Hopefully the swing against her mob, in the State elections will amount to better).
Many are on the hunt for better, in order to look after their families and are tired of reading of the never ending Management bonuses and personal Share allotments, along with the associated excuses for lowering conditions.
Airlines need us even more now, as parked airframes are just abit expensive
, shareholders aren't impressed; cadets need to be trained by experienced pilots and just can't jump into the left seat and many new pilots coming through (a dwindling number!) have been found to have bogus logbooks (just search these forums!). It's about time they realised it's a symbiotic relationship and "their" supply tap is about to run dry... there isn't an endless supply of wannabee's tripping over each other for the "Shiny Jet"... Gen Y et all see it's no longer a financially rewarding or highly respected profession. Look after who you have, may I suggest.
Last edited by Chocks Away; 5th May 2011 at 00:45.
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The turning point is coming, I'm keen to see what comes of the inquiry.
I'm beginning to think it might be an idea to consider training up in another industry as the long term trend for this one isn't a good one.
If you look at the last 20 years as an example it makes me really wonder what I'll be putting up with in another 15 to 20 years time. For example I don't feel like baby sitting on dark stormy nights at 41000 ft.
I like working, I really do, but tend to enjoy it less and less when there isn't any improvement in the way we do things all they way from security screening to the one million notams and so on.
Base salary means nothing if the rest is becoming torture.
I'm beginning to think it might be an idea to consider training up in another industry as the long term trend for this one isn't a good one.
If you look at the last 20 years as an example it makes me really wonder what I'll be putting up with in another 15 to 20 years time. For example I don't feel like baby sitting on dark stormy nights at 41000 ft.
I like working, I really do, but tend to enjoy it less and less when there isn't any improvement in the way we do things all they way from security screening to the one million notams and so on.
Base salary means nothing if the rest is becoming torture.
