Skywest advertises for ATR East Coast crews
AFAIK, still only around 9 aircraft. If they expand to the originally planned 18, or further still to the now rumoured 30, it should result in a feeding frenzy!
Should!
Should!
Last edited by KRUSTY 34; 5th Apr 2013 at 06:03.
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Last I heard there was 11 in service (could be 12 or 13 by now) with an ATR72 600 due from the factory every six to eight weeks from here on in. Two mates started in Feb after December's round of recruitment, and ground schools kicked off in Dec, Jan & Feb. A lot of FOs waiting to be trained, so doesn't sound like anymore recruitment for a (little) while. No more 457 pilots - training them took way longer than expected and seems like it was a very costly experiment. The total ATR order number is 35-odd these days, no longer 18.
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Last lot of advertisements for the job included "generous staff travel entitlements" anyone actually know what they are ? Just thinking about if it would be possible to commute .....
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Jobs for non CASA licence experienced ATR pilots ?
Hi folks,
About 1 year ago, Skywest did recruit a number of experienced EASA licence ATR capts & f/o's, might they go down this route again ??
With all the planned expansion, recruiting experienced ATR pilots in this part of the world maybe a problem ??
Regards
Shamrock 75
About 1 year ago, Skywest did recruit a number of experienced EASA licence ATR capts & f/o's, might they go down this route again ??
With all the planned expansion, recruiting experienced ATR pilots in this part of the world maybe a problem ??
Regards
Shamrock 75
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From someone on the inside, there are VERY limited, if any, staff travel entitlements for Skywest employees on Virgin aircraft.
And on employing more 457 chaps to fly the ATR. Just ask the CFO about what happened to his bottom line and ill think you'll find the answer you're looking for..........................
And on employing more 457 chaps to fly the ATR. Just ask the CFO about what happened to his bottom line and ill think you'll find the answer you're looking for..........................
Last edited by sled_driver71; 7th Apr 2013 at 23:48.
Sorry shamrock, it seems that it was a once only offer. The company panicked and employed all the 457 visas. These guys (who were very experienced ATR pilots) took quite a bit more time than was expected to get checked. As a result, it is highly doubtful they would go down this route again, as what was intended as a 'quick fix' came back and bit them quite hard.
This is secondhand info and happy to be corrected by the 'Alpha' team.
j3
This is secondhand info and happy to be corrected by the 'Alpha' team.
j3
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Re staff travel.
What about thier own aircraft ? Ie Sydney to Canberra ? Surely they could because it is after all a Skywest aircraft. Can anyone let me know ?
Cheers.
What about thier own aircraft ? Ie Sydney to Canberra ? Surely they could because it is after all a Skywest aircraft. Can anyone let me know ?
Cheers.
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The ATR seats are owned by Virgin not Skywest so staff travel on those is by interline, with all the nause that goes with it. Even that has been an issue since Dec. It may change with the purchase by Virgin but there have been no promises made.
Like any rapid expansion there are opportunities but there are teething troubles that don't exist in a more established operation. Horses for courses but overall it's can best be described as a pretty good place to work.
Like any rapid expansion there are opportunities but there are teething troubles that don't exist in a more established operation. Horses for courses but overall it's can best be described as a pretty good place to work.
Hopefully by now they have deduced that a competent locally-experienced Metro or King Air pilot can be trained to fly an ATR 72 in less time and for no more money than it costs to import a 457 visa person who just happens to have some prior experience on type.
Then the Metro and King Air operators will lose pilots in droves and need to come to grips with the concept that a competent Chieftain or 402 driver can be trained to drive their space shuttle turboprop, and the guys with Chieftains etc will just have to learn to trust the Baron and 310 sprogs....etc etc. As it was in my time and as it should be.
There is not a transport category aeroplane ever built that could not be mastered by a competent aviator after some endorsement training and ICUS. Concorde pilots were not exceptional - just senior enough and lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.
Complain to your local MP about 457 visas for pilots.
I see a certain SAAB 340 operator still fishing on some overseas jobsites, too.
Then the Metro and King Air operators will lose pilots in droves and need to come to grips with the concept that a competent Chieftain or 402 driver can be trained to drive their space shuttle turboprop, and the guys with Chieftains etc will just have to learn to trust the Baron and 310 sprogs....etc etc. As it was in my time and as it should be.
There is not a transport category aeroplane ever built that could not be mastered by a competent aviator after some endorsement training and ICUS. Concorde pilots were not exceptional - just senior enough and lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time.
Complain to your local MP about 457 visas for pilots.
I see a certain SAAB 340 operator still fishing on some overseas jobsites, too.
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You guys ought to be less judgmental on 457 crews. There are many Oz pilots operating out of Europe that were embraced openly...sadly, this doesn't appear to be the case in Oz..xenophobia possibly? I guess it goes all the way to poor Labour Govt mandates that include visa entry for Brits, FIRB for UK residents to buy property and incredibly strict work visa protocols to boot. maybe you should be welcoming Afghan and Sudanese pilots with similar bias??
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Really, an Aussie pilot can rock up in France or Spain and expect to get a job ahead of the locals? Xenophobia is not unique to Australia, so pull your head out of your ass.
People are concerned about 457 visas when there are still plenty of local pilots around who could step into the right seat of a SAAB or ATR (for the right price). In Skywest's case I think they just went down the 457 path to quickly increase their pilot numbers with experienced ATR pilots. However, it backfired spectacularly and I've been told a year on there are still guys not checked to line due to bottle necks and various other reasons.
In most cases, the use of 457 visas (not just in aviation, look at mining too) is to alter the natural supply and demand of labour. Why pay good Aussie pilots (or other workers) more to attract them to the company when a bunch of desperate foreigners are willing to work for much less? European pilots are so desperate for a job they are forking out tens of thousands of euros for an Airbus or ATR endorsement, then are willing to work for free to get their first 500 hours up. I guess most of us don't want aviation to go down that path locally.
People are concerned about 457 visas when there are still plenty of local pilots around who could step into the right seat of a SAAB or ATR (for the right price). In Skywest's case I think they just went down the 457 path to quickly increase their pilot numbers with experienced ATR pilots. However, it backfired spectacularly and I've been told a year on there are still guys not checked to line due to bottle necks and various other reasons.
In most cases, the use of 457 visas (not just in aviation, look at mining too) is to alter the natural supply and demand of labour. Why pay good Aussie pilots (or other workers) more to attract them to the company when a bunch of desperate foreigners are willing to work for much less? European pilots are so desperate for a job they are forking out tens of thousands of euros for an Airbus or ATR endorsement, then are willing to work for free to get their first 500 hours up. I guess most of us don't want aviation to go down that path locally.
There are many Oz pilots operating out of Europe that were embraced openly...sadly, this doesn't appear to be the case in Oz..xenophobia possibly?
What has happened here is that XR have imported labour because someone thought it would be cheaper to pay for the conversion than pay high time turboprop pilots to complete an endorsement. They were wrong.
So we now have foreigners taking Australian jobs that could have quite easily be done by a local or a Kiwi for that matter.
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What has happened here is that XR have imported labour because someone thought it would be cheaper to pay for the conversion than pay high time turboprop pilots to complete an endorsement. They were wrong.
Last edited by Capt. On Heat; 9th Apr 2013 at 10:00.
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Besides the arguments of the local industry soaking up the lads from Oz and Kiwi, my point remains..there is significant bias against foreign crews ..as for the perceived advantage in longterm of training up local Ozzies as opposed to rebreeding experienced ATR European guys..it still doesn't stack up. Even if the latter crews take a marginally longer time, mostly through admin, (CASA et al..infamously as bad as uk CAA), their wealth of experience pays dividend in the long term. The European theatre is vastly different than Oz. FCS, pop an Ozzie Controller into LHR and see the result: separation distance in SYD is a joke and always has been. Couple that with the vigorous resistance of most Oz based crews to think out of the box??...with very few exemptions..380 etc.
And as for low houred ATR/Dash pilots..I seem to recall in the heady days of Air Arran, a bulk of the guys were from Oz..same with ex Air Wales and Fly B.
Ultimately, its all about give and take. We all learn in this industry and its about time we cross fertilised this experience sensibly and with the pragmatism of fairness.
Ooops..hornets nest possibly!!?
And as for low houred ATR/Dash pilots..I seem to recall in the heady days of Air Arran, a bulk of the guys were from Oz..same with ex Air Wales and Fly B.
Ultimately, its all about give and take. We all learn in this industry and its about time we cross fertilised this experience sensibly and with the pragmatism of fairness.
Ooops..hornets nest possibly!!?
Oz pilots in UK and Europe
I want to know who all these Aussies are flying around Europe who don't have a passport giving them the right to live and work in the EU. A very small percentage may have been hired in the 90's when it was a bit easier to stay in the EU but it was also a bit easier then to stay in Australia.
A very high percentage of Australians hold passports by either being born in the EU or having one or both parents born there. Most of the people I went to high school with had overseas born parents.
Will everyone please stop with the whole "Aussies taking jobs in Europe" thing cause it isn't true. 99% of these people I would say already had an EU passport before they got a CPL.
If you don't have an EU passport you cant work in Europe. No exceptions.
A very high percentage of Australians hold passports by either being born in the EU or having one or both parents born there. Most of the people I went to high school with had overseas born parents.
Will everyone please stop with the whole "Aussies taking jobs in Europe" thing cause it isn't true. 99% of these people I would say already had an EU passport before they got a CPL.
If you don't have an EU passport you cant work in Europe. No exceptions.
And/Or because CASA required it as part of the rapid expansion......
Have heard that line used before, sounds like bull**** to me, just another excuse for the company to get away with it
Have heard that line used before, sounds like bull**** to me, just another excuse for the company to get away with it
